Took the 6 PPC to the range last weekend and fire formed the last 25 cases out of the 100 new ones that I started 4 or 5 years ago. My friend and mentor that I shot BR with passed away back then and I haven't shot the gun much since then. It is time to load more and start using this gun again. I remember Jon showing me a couple of paragraphs that someone on here wrote about tuning the 6. As I recall it said that for every 6 degrees in temp increase you added another 1/10 grain powder, and the same if temp went down. It was very good info and I don't remember who posted it, maybe Gene Beggs??? If anyone can figure out what I saw and point me to the original document so I can print it and try and understand how to use it I would appreciate it. I have a good load that uses H322 and Berger 65 grain flat base bullets, but it has to be in the 70s or less to be in tune, and I seldom get that around here. Thanks for looking Mark
loading for 6PPC
- Thread starter ebb
- Start date
WHOAHHHHH!!!!
Now how could it make sense to "for every 6 degrees in temp increase you added another 1/10 grain powder, and the same if temp went down."......????
I'm no expert on the PPC but I am a licensed reloader and in my world I lose powder as temp goes up and add powder when temp goes down.
Now how could it make sense to "for every 6 degrees in temp increase you added another 1/10 grain powder, and the same if temp went down."......????
I'm no expert on the PPC but I am a licensed reloader and in my world I lose powder as temp goes up and add powder when temp goes down.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
This is one of his posts on that subject >>> http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?93569-for-you-tunnel-shooters/page2 -- post # 27.
vtmarmot
P Magoon, Livin' Free NH
Also, see the article by Lee Euber in the post by abintx here: http://benchrest.com/archive/index.php/t-50979.html
Might be helpful getting in the ballpark.
Might be helpful getting in the ballpark.
Yes Hunter that was it. My recall was not as good as I thought. After Jon and I shot and put the rifles away we used to have adult beverages, and that was when this came up. I didn't remember that it was for N133. Jon and the other shooters told me that I hadn't been at this long enough to shoot N133. The pushed me towards H322, saying it would be more forgiving to a novice. The load I have has shoot some 5 shot groups in the 0s, but I have no clue as to how to keep it tuned when the temp and other conditions are not right for my load.
coyotechet
Chet
It's actually pretty simple
Some shooters go up on powder to get rid of vertical, some shooters go down on powder to do the same. Both are right. You might ask how that can be. It depends where you are in the tuning node.
Same way with tuners, you can turn the tuner inward to get rid of vertical and you can also turn it outward to do the same. Time on the range is your biggest friend to get it figured out.
The biggest thing is knowing where your at on the tuning node. I hate guessing! With enough time spent on the range you can know exactly what to with powder or a tuner.
To say if the temp rises so much you need to change the load this much, I never had good luck with that. There are alot more things that come into play besides temp.
I go preloaded to every match I shoot and live and die by the tuner. I'm not saying it will work for everybody but it works for me only because I have put the time in so that I am not guessing on what to do.
Richard
Some shooters go up on powder to get rid of vertical, some shooters go down on powder to do the same. Both are right. You might ask how that can be. It depends where you are in the tuning node.
Same way with tuners, you can turn the tuner inward to get rid of vertical and you can also turn it outward to do the same. Time on the range is your biggest friend to get it figured out.
The biggest thing is knowing where your at on the tuning node. I hate guessing! With enough time spent on the range you can know exactly what to with powder or a tuner.
To say if the temp rises so much you need to change the load this much, I never had good luck with that. There are alot more things that come into play besides temp.
I go preloaded to every match I shoot and live and die by the tuner. I'm not saying it will work for everybody but it works for me only because I have put the time in so that I am not guessing on what to do.
Richard
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I read through the Lee Euber thread
AND, i have changed my mind a bit regarding power amounts and the process in total. Firstly I would say it is ASOLUTELY critical to know exactly how long loaded rounds are using proper measuring tools vs square or long marks. It's pretty simple to use a comparitor attached to a Vernier Caliper to measure a loaded round that works and for heaven's sake, WRITE THAT LENGTH DOWN! Once the magic length has been discovered, the powdah is then what one needs to watch.
The other thing is, I will retract my statement about the tenth of one grain making a difference, for it does! A tenth of a grain of powder is the difference between one bullet hole and small clover leafs or ragged holes. It is possible to find one single bullet hole groups by being meticulous about loading. Every little bit counts. We can control our loading but we can't control all the other "Murphys" out there. If we go to compete with meticulously loaded ammo, we have done the best we can to thwart Murphy and his henchmen.
Pete
AND, i have changed my mind a bit regarding power amounts and the process in total. Firstly I would say it is ASOLUTELY critical to know exactly how long loaded rounds are using proper measuring tools vs square or long marks. It's pretty simple to use a comparitor attached to a Vernier Caliper to measure a loaded round that works and for heaven's sake, WRITE THAT LENGTH DOWN! Once the magic length has been discovered, the powdah is then what one needs to watch.
The other thing is, I will retract my statement about the tenth of one grain making a difference, for it does! A tenth of a grain of powder is the difference between one bullet hole and small clover leafs or ragged holes. It is possible to find one single bullet hole groups by being meticulous about loading. Every little bit counts. We can control our loading but we can't control all the other "Murphys" out there. If we go to compete with meticulously loaded ammo, we have done the best we can to thwart Murphy and his henchmen.
Pete
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If I have a bbl
with that small of a powder tuning window it won't be going to a match. It's almost impossible to shoot a good agg with something like that. I hate those teaser bbls, they shoot a nice little hole and the next group isn't that great. Some of my best bbls never shot killer zero groups but they didn't shoot anything big. In other words at the end of the day they would agg. And that is what it's all about.
Richard
with that small of a powder tuning window it won't be going to a match. It's almost impossible to shoot a good agg with something like that. I hate those teaser bbls, they shoot a nice little hole and the next group isn't that great. Some of my best bbls never shot killer zero groups but they didn't shoot anything big. In other words at the end of the day they would agg. And that is what it's all about.
Richard
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I think there is a difference
between score shooting tuning and Group shooting tuning somehow. We strive to hit the same hole every time, actually, if one wants to win a VFS match they had better be able to. Why anyone would want to do something else is beyond me but I know people are satisfied with less. I have had a couple of barrels over my 20 or so years that would shoot about anything close but that's it. I guess I don't go through enough barrels.
Also, I suspect there may be a difference between tuning 6PPC's and other chamberings. I've never messed with 6 PPC's at all. Mebby my findings with 30's are a whole nother smoke?
Pete
between score shooting tuning and Group shooting tuning somehow. We strive to hit the same hole every time, actually, if one wants to win a VFS match they had better be able to. Why anyone would want to do something else is beyond me but I know people are satisfied with less. I have had a couple of barrels over my 20 or so years that would shoot about anything close but that's it. I guess I don't go through enough barrels.
Also, I suspect there may be a difference between tuning 6PPC's and other chamberings. I've never messed with 6 PPC's at all. Mebby my findings with 30's are a whole nother smoke?
Pete
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
What's the size of the dot on a 100 yard score target -- maybe .06"? If so, a .30 will give you a 250-25x with basically a .368 agg. I doubt such an agg would win many group matches.
Let's don't turn this
into a group vs score thread. Been enough of that already. I shoot group, but I enjoy score shooting at a local club once in awhile.
Pete, I have had some good shooters tell me just that. You have to go through some bbls and have great bullets. Bullets that will give you something in the wind.
One thing I have noticed with the 30BR guys, it seems the tune stays better,longer than with a ppc.
I build them but don't shoot one myself so I won't comment much on the 30's
I'll give you an interesting story from the only VFS match I have shot.(6ppc) I shot the 100 yd fine and won that but 200 was a different story. I had shots going where I didn't think they should be. After a couple targets I realized this thing was out of tune! I had to go to the sighter and pretend I was shooting group to get the rifle shooting again. Is that what you score guys do?
After the match was over I thought it was harder to tune for a score match than group, but like I say my inexperience with score is probably showing.
Richard
into a group vs score thread. Been enough of that already. I shoot group, but I enjoy score shooting at a local club once in awhile.
Pete, I have had some good shooters tell me just that. You have to go through some bbls and have great bullets. Bullets that will give you something in the wind.
One thing I have noticed with the 30BR guys, it seems the tune stays better,longer than with a ppc.
I build them but don't shoot one myself so I won't comment much on the 30's
I'll give you an interesting story from the only VFS match I have shot.(6ppc) I shot the 100 yd fine and won that but 200 was a different story. I had shots going where I didn't think they should be. After a couple targets I realized this thing was out of tune! I had to go to the sighter and pretend I was shooting group to get the rifle shooting again. Is that what you score guys do?
After the match was over I thought it was harder to tune for a score match than group, but like I say my inexperience with score is probably showing.
Richard
Pete Wass
Well-known member
6 es
I have started a new chapter in my Benchrest life, a 6 BR Varmint Hunter rifle! I decided, on a whim last winter, to build a 6MM rifle to shoot in the Varmint Hunter IBS class. Did it around a 700Rem SS action I bought off the internet. The action turned out to be very straight and tight so proceeded to get it put together. A friend bedded the rifle and another friend loaned me his reamer and I paid a lad to chamber it. Got the rifle up and running and wasn't able to easily find a load that sited me but decided to forge ahead. I made 65 cases, filled them with the best load I had found and went to a match. I was surprised with what I found. I believe the 6 BR shoots tighter than the 30 BR I have used for years. I won the first match I shot it in by 4 points and 4 x'es, The next match I lost my way somehow but the rifle continued to shoot well. In a couple of matches later, a 200-300 match I didn't shoot well @ 200 but won the 300 handily and was one point behind in the Agg. I have missed a lot over the years by staying away from the 6MM, I'm certain now. Season's over for this year but I have continued to load test, fireforming another 100 cases for next season. Tuesday last I finished my fireforming and found two .060" groups that day with different powders! Life is good! My work is done for this year.
Yeah, I take back everything bad I have ever said about 6's.
Pete
I have started a new chapter in my Benchrest life, a 6 BR Varmint Hunter rifle! I decided, on a whim last winter, to build a 6MM rifle to shoot in the Varmint Hunter IBS class. Did it around a 700Rem SS action I bought off the internet. The action turned out to be very straight and tight so proceeded to get it put together. A friend bedded the rifle and another friend loaned me his reamer and I paid a lad to chamber it. Got the rifle up and running and wasn't able to easily find a load that sited me but decided to forge ahead. I made 65 cases, filled them with the best load I had found and went to a match. I was surprised with what I found. I believe the 6 BR shoots tighter than the 30 BR I have used for years. I won the first match I shot it in by 4 points and 4 x'es, The next match I lost my way somehow but the rifle continued to shoot well. In a couple of matches later, a 200-300 match I didn't shoot well @ 200 but won the 300 handily and was one point behind in the Agg. I have missed a lot over the years by staying away from the 6MM, I'm certain now. Season's over for this year but I have continued to load test, fireforming another 100 cases for next season. Tuesday last I finished my fireforming and found two .060" groups that day with different powders! Life is good! My work is done for this year.
Yeah, I take back everything bad I have ever said about 6's. Pete
Ebb, let me make you a very simple suggestion. Use it awhile until you get your sea legs, maybe a long time.
133 tuning is not the easiest skill to learn.....so......get yourself some LT 32 and when you shoot, go to a match, etc., go to the line with 27.8, 28, 28.3 grains.....pretty easy.
What ever shoots best, use it the entire match.
133 tuning is not the easiest skill to learn.....so......get yourself some LT 32 and when you shoot, go to a match, etc., go to the line with 27.8, 28, 28.3 grains.....pretty easy.
What ever shoots best, use it the entire match.