Lathe tooling

S

skeetlee

Active member
Boy oh boy! I have been looking at my new grizzly catalog at some of the lathe tooling and i think i have a headache. LOL!! 60 degree cutters 80 degree cutter or turning tools carbide this or high speed steel that! How in the world is a new fellas supposed to know what to buy? There is a million different tool holders and two million different cutting tools. Full profile threading tools or single point threading tools. I wish grizzly would put a package together just for the new guy. In this kit it would have every cutting threading and holder a guy needs just for barrel work. I am more than sure dad can help when the time comes but i would kinda like to start buying a few pieces now so it isnt such a big hit when i get the cash for the lathe. How is a guy to know what he needs and doesnt need?? I love the research but this one is a little above my knowledge point at this time anyway. I will learn i am sure. Lee
 
sign up for a machine shop class at the closest junior college.....
hangout with a gunsmith...well maybe.....how about a br gunsmith
( uncle sam provide my basic skills...this site has helped in the br area)
mike in co
 
Skeet, there is an old wood carvers saying "if you are whittling a duck, cut off all the wood that does not look like a duck".

Lathe machining is the same way. Look at the workpiece, layer by layer and step by step. Then buy the tooling that will fit within the geometry of what metal you are removing.

For example, look at the barrel tenon (or its drawing). Now find a tool that will remove that metal without having to cock that tool to different angles.

Next step, threading the tenon, find a tool shape that will fit in those threads.

Next step, look at the cone shape and find a tool that can cut that shape.

After you have planned out all the steps and picked out that tooling, then you have your list.

Of course this is an over simplification because you also have to select the cutting material grade for the material you are machining.

But, see, develop a systematic process for each workpiece shape, it is not really too complicated.


Now, as to running that lathe, go to eBay and buy a copy of the old South Bend "How to run a lathe". That book was first published in the teens but lathe machining principles haven't changed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUTH-BEND-Run-...147?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439fc1f823
 
I still learning my self, and I would suggest HSS for most applications when starting out. You can usually find a decent selection of all different kinds of tooling in one lot on Craigslist or Ebay for pretty cheap, or if you know any machinists they will usually have some extra tooling they may sell for cheap. I apprenticed for a while and noted what others were using for what application, and I started with cheap hss tooling untill I figured what I liked and what worked for me. You will need a right hand cutter(I like mine to have an 80 degree point for cutting the radius at the shoulder) for cutting tennons, a left hand cutter(will come in handy) a facing tool bit( I like mine rounded or with two leading edges so I cut going in and out) for cutting facing or cutting a cone. A 60 degree threading tool(http://www.grizzly.com/products/Set-of-E-x-t-Threading-Bits-8-x-10-x-80/H5693), a boring bar ( a small diameter one if you plan on preboring your chamber). I know Im leaving something out but Im sure others will post some more. A starter kit would be nice, but I dont know of one
 
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a Warner co has quality HSS tooling. He also a very helpful.

If you don't want to buy a set, he suggested a profile tool the he said will handle 95 percent of your work.

He makes carbide and HSS inserts that fit the same tooling. He also has threading tools.

Hal
 
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Something to consider; In performing the operations we need to do in gunsmithing, HSS will always work. HSS is much more forgiving than any of he carbide grades.

Any chatter at all, any stopping the workpiece while in a cut will destroy carbide tooling while HSS will survive. These small light weight lathes being used by todays amateur gunsmiths do not have the rigidity or even the horsepower to use most of the grades of carbides that are available in the methods they were designed for. Luckily, fitting a barrel blank to an action does not require much metal removal, but overall HSS is best.

As to HSS tooling there are several alloys within that spectrum but the common HSS and HSSCo alloys available now will work handsomely. You just have to learn how to best grind the shapes required to obtain a good finish and to not produce a dangerous stringy chip.
 
Skeet, my best advice would be is to buy a small Aloris Style tool holder. It does not have to be a top of the line brand name, like Aloris or Dorian, but that type of holder, with three tool holders, including the one with the "v" for holding small boring bars, is a God send.

How nice are they? I own a full operating machine shop. While we specialize in Marine Work, we are apt to be machining just about anything over the course of a week.

Ever Lathe in our shop has an Aloris holder. In fact, aside from large special boring bar holders on the larger Lathes, that is all we use.

I am a fan of carbide inserts for lathe work. I do understand that the hobbyist is limited in what he can have laying around, but do keep in mind, sooner or later you will have to sharpen those HSS tools. That is an art in its self. .........jackie
 
Jackie, do you not agree that hss tooling is more forgiving for amateurs and on these little lathes?
 
have to say after 34 plus years as a class a machinist and tool and die maker that when outfitting my shop i'd not use the hss or carbide from grizzley their machines do a great job but when it comes to tooling its lacking big time ive tried their tooling and used it becuz it was affordable but seems as far as holders go all the set screws need replacing and the grade of steel in hss and carbide just doesnt last compared to sandvick or some of the other premium cutters
tim stratton
 
coopshooter said:
have to say after 34 plus years as a class a machinist and tool and die maker that when outfitting my shop i'd not use the hss or carbide from grizzley their machines do a great job but when it comes to tooling its lacking big time ive tried their tooling and used it becuz it was affordable but seems as far as holders go all the set screws need replacing and the grade of steel in hss and carbide just doesnt last compared to sandvick or some of the other premium cutters
tim stratton
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Tim - I looked up what you ordered and found that you ordered the cheaper quality inserts that sell for about $2.00 each. We also sell a good selection of top quality tooling with inserts that are made, for the most part, by Mitsubishi in Japan and other high end names from Japan, Korea and Great Britain. See the attached link for some of those.

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2011/Main/641

These particular inserts sell for about 4 to 8 times the price of the inserts you bought and are mostly what industrial users use. Just depends on what you can afford. Making a blanket statement is not helpful. Further, this year, we have also added some HSS inserts that are made in USA, specifically for the gunsmiths out there who can now use the threading holders with top quality inserts. These are not cheap, but are amazing (T10445 is the model #).

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2011/MetalworkingAccessories/9

We sell the complete range in tooling. If budget is limited, we have the lower priced stuff. If you want the best, we have that as well. We carry the top brands in the industry like Dorian quick change tool post systems (USA), Aloris (USA), Pratt an Burnerd (England), Buck chucks, Fagor and Newall DROs etc...

Here's a link to the Metal Accessories catalog that just came out:
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2011/MetalworkingAccessories/
 
I am very happy with the 5% cobalt HSS blanks sold at Grizzly, they compete with the good stuff bought for twice the price.
 
Thanks fellas this is a good read for me. Jerry you always make since to me and i appreciate that very much! As far as boring bars go. Is it a Bad idea to use a finishing reamer for the hole chamber if you cut say .030 at a time, then re oil and blow out the chips. Basically what i mean is this. Whats wrong with using the reamer instead of a boring bar or a roughing reamer if done slowly and carefully? Also, the tool holder that comes with the grizzly lathe. Is this a good holder for barrel work or will it need replacing? Lee
 
Skeet, I agree with Jackies recommending the aloris style toolpost and holders. When I purchased my first lathe I had difficulty with the 4 way and lantern toolposts. The aloris style makes things much easier, and help me achieve good results, simply put it was the best $$ I spent on tooling hands down
 
skeetlee said:
Boy oh boy! I have been looking at my new grizzly catalog at some of the lathe tooling and i think i have a headache. LOL!! 60 degree cutters 80 degree cutter or turning tools carbide this or high speed steel that! How in the world is a new fellas supposed to know what to buy? There is a million different tool holders and two million different cutting tools. Full profile threading tools or single point threading tools. I wish grizzly would put a package together just for the new guy. In this kit it would have every cutting threading and holder a guy needs just for barrel work. I am more than sure dad can help when the time comes but i would kinda like to start buying a few pieces now so it isnt such a big hit when i get the cash for the lathe. How is a guy to know what he needs and doesnt need?? I love the research but this one is a little above my knowledge point at this time anyway. I will learn i am sure. Lee
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If you got a headache looking at Grizzly with their somewhat limited selection, you don't want to crack open an MSC or similar catalog, you will really go into melt-down.

I like using carbide for most stuff, but those cheap $3 inserts are worth about what you pay for them! Learn a few things with them and then buy the better grade of inserts. You don't need fancy stuff, just serviceable stuff. Grizzly has some gunsmith specific stuff which is nice but they don't have the biggest selection of general tooling.
 
Shiraz Balolia said:
... Further, this year, we have also added some HSS inserts that are made in USA, specifically for the gunsmiths out there who can now use the threading holders with top quality inserts. These are not cheap, but are amazing (T10445 is the model #)....
Click to expand...

I clicked on the link for the T10445 insert and it says that it has been discontinued.
 
Skeet, I hadn't priced an Aloris tool post lately, but they are about twice what they were a few years ago. Enco had the AXA tool post at $300.98 and BXA at 366.98. AXA is for lathes from 9" to 12" swings and BXA is for 10" to 15" swings. MSC is $340.20 on the AXA Aloris tool post. I have a DTM brand tool post on my Kent lathe and an Aloris on my Leblond. I like the Aloris better, but the DTM seems to work just as well. Some holders seem to not fit as well on the DTM as they do on the Aloris. To my understaning the wedge type tool posts are better than the piston type. All I've used is the wedge type.
 
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coopshooter said:
have to say after 34 plus years as a class a machinist and tool and die maker that when outfitting my shop i'd not use the hss or carbide from grizzley their machines do a great job but when it comes to tooling its lacking big time ive tried their tooling and used it becuz it was affordable but seems as far as holders go all the set screws need replacing and the grade of steel in hss and carbide just doesnt last compared to sandvick or some of the other premium cutters
tim stratton
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What he said. I've thrown away all the tooling I bought at Grizzly. Go to MSC, Rutland, or even ENCO, for tooling but not Grizzly.

Fitch
 
skeetlee said:
I checked into the Aloris stuff and man was it expensive. What would be a good alternative brand? lee

Skeet you can look for a nice used set or check out the import stuff. I have an aloris toolpost and some aloris tool holders I also have some import toolholders and they work just fine
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