lathe question

the m300 is priced at 2500.00 with a 3&4 jaw chuck,aloris tool post and jacobs chuck for tailstock. the man said it was in nice shape from a school. does the price sound good? thanks again for all the advice:)
 
yea that's a good deal if it's in good shape, check the between centers dimension though cause there is no 36" m300 only a 25" and 40" IIRC.
 
p17p14enflield said:
dose any one in the use still make small shop lathes?
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Outside of the chicoms not really, most companies view real lathes as starting at the 16-18 x 60 range. I don't keep up with the German offerings though. There are some S Korean lathes marketed by the Birmingham importer that their part number starts with LUX (no clue if they are worth considering). Taiwanese has the Sharp lathes, there are a few other Taiwanese machine tool manufactures but I'm not sure if they are Taiwanese re-brands of chicom lathes or not. Japanese well I really only keep up with the HMC's, VMC's an turning centers so I may be missing something. The Japanese make really good machine tools, it embarrasses anything made in the US these days, just try comparing a Kitamura to a Haas, it's really sad. The Harrison and Colchester smaller lathes are all chicom manufactured and re-branded.

Now if the use was supposed to be US, the answer is hell no! All the US manufactures had accountants decide that their profits over year groth wasn't high enough to stay in business and sold out till LeBlond owned them all and well got caught holding the bag (well in the case of SB atleast). I think Standard-Modern is probably the closest, at least they are N American.
 
What about the Standard Modern lathes in Canada?
No one else seems to mention them. I know they make a 1334 and a 1340 lathe that seem about right in size. Are the quality of those lathes crap or what. What type of headstock bearings do they use. It seems to me I would much rather have a lathe from Canada than one from Tawian or China. At least you know you can get a part and it is also made in North America
John
 
Everybody I've talked to that have used em liked the Standard-Modern lathes, but they are very rare down here in SE Texas. Practicalmachinist is probably a better place to get information on them.

They use a 3 bearing headstock design, two preloaded and one on the back at the gears I'd assume.

Last I heard they are still made in Mississauga Ontario. I bet one of the reasons you don't hear more about them is they are probably pricey but that's just a guess.
 
stiles said:
Outside of the chicoms not really, most companies view real lathes as starting at the 16-18 x 60 range.
Now if the use was supposed to be US, the answer is hell no! All the US manufactures had accountants decide that their profits over year growth wasn't high enough to stay in business and sold out till LeBlond owned them all and well got caught holding the bag (well in the case of SB atleast). I think Standard-Modern is probably the closest, at least they are N American.
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Stiles post reminds me of two things. First was the creation of the EPA, which immediately shut down most US foundries so no "iron" would be available in-country. Companies like American Lathe, Cincinnati-Gilbert and others had to import their castings.

The other thing I was reminded of was WCI, White Consolidated Industries, who bought up most of the patents and drawings of the biggies like American Lathe, DeVleig, Bullard, Sunstrand, and many of the old standbys that made the machine tools that made the war machines of WW II. Where does this lead us???

Remembering back WCI even bought about all the kitchen appliance companies like Whirlpool, Westinghouse Appliance Division and so on.
 
I own several lathes capable of chambering and misc. gun work, a Rockwell, three 13" South Bend, two 11" Logan, a 12" Taiwan Enco, etc and just recently purchased a well tooled Harrison M300 13"x40". The Harrison headstock isn't long by my calculations, just under 17" from end of spindle to D1-4 face, if you drilled/tapped the smooth unused portion of the outboard spindle for a spider it should indicate and work a 16.5" barrel. The M300 uses a 3 hp., single speed motor and the gearbox enables 12 speeds, from 40 to 2500 rpm. Though it's rated 40" between centers, I measure 42" with the tailstock fully on the bed. The Gamet spindle bearings and precision headstock are the best part of the M300 but inch and metric threading from the dial, foot brake, HD coolant pump and etc. make it easy to like.

Lathe prices seemed to have tanked, a decent variable speed Sharp 13 x 40 sold today on eBay for less then $950.00.
 
JerrySharrett said:
Paul, I'll wager you have never been in a real machine shop, let alone manage one. Now, tell me, just what is state of the art in engine lathes.

The British iron is pretty good but their engineering as to longevity, ergonomics, bearings and seals stinks.

Know why the Brits don't make computers? They can't figure how to make them leak oil!! Anyone who has ever owned a British sports car, British sedan, or British SUV know what I am talking about.
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I agree Jerry, and I'll never understand the logic of (2) 6 volt batteries :confused:
 
Jerry, I live in Cincinnati. during a graymarket period I was a machinery dealer. At times I would attend three or four machineshop auctions per week. For several months running I sold more lathes on Ebay than all of the large dealers in the area sold in total everywhere. I have had a dozen heavy 10s. I've had just about every lathe made including many that most people have never heard of. One of the best lathes made, in my opinion, is a Boye and Emmes (Monarchs are sweet). At one time I had three B&E under power in my shop. One had a 144" CC. At one time 90% of the railroad repair yards in the US had a Boye and Emmes lathe. (made in Cincinnati) I had a 30" american with 20' between centers. This town was home to most of the major lathe makers in the world. Monarch and sydney were just up the road. I had many LeBlonds, but I didn't keep them for my own use because the controls were opposite those of Monarch and B&E. I have repaired and rebuilt many lathes. I have replaned large lathe beds on my 12' Cincinnati planer. I replaned one Heavy ten. (I used my 6' planer for that). I have bought out working machine shops. I only sold only through ebay. I bought out a gun drill plant and also sold gun drills for a year. One of my favorite lathes I used in my shop was a Warnar swayze 2A. It had a 4-1/8" hole through the headstock, a built in spider chuck on the outboard spindle and saddle type turret. It weighed about 10,000# and had 20 hp. To tap, you just picked a feed to match in the turret and had a "leadscrew" effect. I made backplates for lathes and sold them on ebay. Maybe 500 of them. However, I am not a machinist, nor a gunsmith. I can run all the machines. I like heavy tens, they are cute. I see in your pictures that you have a decent lathe. Not a heavy ten. I remember the first Emco (with an "E") that I got. I had a heavy ten alongside it. You couldn't stand to use the heavy ten or an atlas with the emco available. There's a big difference. As I said, I'm not a gunsmith. I wouldn't give advice on quality work. I will, however, respond to questions about lathes.

P.S. I kept close watch on the lathe market. I didn't want to pay more than I could sell for. I watched as Atlas 10s, for example, brought less and less on ebay. Why? You could buy one of those Taiwan 9x20s full tooled for less than a bare Atlas. People made choices. They found that they could get a 9x20 delivered by just ordering it, and that it was a good lathe. Or look all over for a used Atlas and spend the next year trying to find tools and accessories, and get it to work.

P.P.S. I had a Cincinnati #5 vertical mill with a 3axis dro. 20,000#, 50 hp, bed was 11' long. I had three Blanchard grinders and a Heald rotary surface in the shop at the same time. We actually had a job for the heald, resurfaced the sides of slitter knives for the steel plants.

Not only have I been inside a machineshop, I've been in many of the machineshops around here with a forklift. I've been retired some time now, but I still get calls to move a machine from one shop to another occasionally. I can walk into any machineshop in Cincinnati and see people I know.
 
papapaul said:
I like heavy tens, they are cute. I see in your pictures that you have a decent lathe. Not a heavy ten. I remember the first Emco (with an "E") that I got. I had a heavy ten alongside it. You couldn't stand to use the heavy ten or an atlas with the emco available. There's a big difference.
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Big difference is in the contest for understatement of the week.

A late childhood friend's dad, who is just short of 100 years old (and doing just fine), has one of the Emco super somethings that is an 11" swing as I recall. D1-4 spindle nose, also had a mill column behind the lathe ways. I got to play with it 15 years ago or so. That is machine that pretty much defines an ultimate quality small lathe. Within it's size range, which covers about all gunsmith metal working, that is a superb machine.

They were made in Austria I think? Blue Ridge Tool had parts for them for a while, and might still. It was really sad to see them go out of production.

Fitch
 
quote< Mr. Enfield, Check my earlier post with Precision Barrelworks website. Look at Pete Pieper's Harrison >

i bucth i dont need to look as i owen a m300 mine a was made 1978, i work for 600 lathes uk how make or market the harrison range, and we do still make some cnc in the uk ! i like my m300 its easy to work but there are better machince out there ! i wish mine hade bigger spindle bore .

i do now the in and out of m300
 
papapaul said:
jerry, i live in cincinnati. During a graymarket period i was a machinery dealer.

A warnar swayze 2a. It had a 4-1/8" hole through the headstock, a built in spider chuck on the outboard spindle and saddle type turret. It weighed about 10,000# and had 20 hp. wasn't the warner swasey 2a a turret lathe??

i see in your pictures that you have a decent lathe. Not a heavy ten. i've never shown a picture of my heavy 10 on this forum. It is in great shape but i never got around to repainting it after it was stripped by the previous owner. Mine is a heavy 10.

Friend of mine has a 13" emco, not enco. We've stripped the gears out of it a few times.




not only have i been inside a machineshop, i've been in many of the machineshops around here with a forklift. I've been retired some time now, but i still get calls to move a machine from one shop to another occasionally. I can walk into any machineshop in cincinnati and see people i know. not many of the old hands left. I used to go to sidney and to the mill, gray planer, grieves, ge evandale, american on eggleston ave, and some more that i can't recall just now. We may have crossed trails somewhere,


like charlie "twinkle toes gilbert?
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(For some stupid reason this post is dropping my caps)

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How did this get personal? You said I probably never been in a machine shop, I just responded. Yes the Warner Swayze is a saddle type turret lathe. Mine had a 3 jaw chuck. Lots of capabilities and smooth to use. It is a lathe. State of the art? For a 10" lathe I'd say a Monarch 10EE with a VFD and a DRO. At the Eastern Machinery going out of business auction I out bid a gentleman for a 10EE. a little later he came to me and said:"see that pallet? You better buy it, it has all the tooling for that 10EE." I said:"Are you sure?" He handed me his card. He was the president of Monarch.
 
The lathe pictures I was thinking of were from the thread "Jackie threading a barrel", sorry.
 
papapaul said:
How did this get personal? You said I probably never been in a machine shop, I just responded. He was the president of Monarch.
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Get personal? I didn't intend that.

Who was the Monarch president? I can't remember names anymore. Last time I saw the guy who was CEO of Monarch was at the Monarch Cortland plant in NY. This would have been about 1994-95.
 
Monarch lathe was just up the road in sydney, Ohio. As was Sheldon and Sydney lathe cos. The Monarch Pres. was at the Eastern auction to buy up all the large, late model, Monarch lathes. They were going to rebuild them and convert them to CNC. I don't remember his name. This was 7-8 years ago.
 
papapaul said:
Monarch lathe was just up the road in sydney, Ohio.
.
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I used to send our Monarch lathes to Monarch Sidney for rebuilds. Last two I sent were EE's. Seems it was about $65,000 or so for the rebuild which includes something like $20-30K for new spindle bearings. The American Pacemakers we had, I sent them to DeVleig-Bullard at Twinsburg. You ever been there?
 
I'd better correct myself. Sheldon was originally made in Chicago. Towards the end these marques moved around as these companies were sold. Sebastion, Carol & Jamison, and logan, are now the property of the D.C. Morrison Co. in Covington, Ky (across the Ohio River from Cincinnati). Sometimes when these companies were sold out, the buyers, or ex-employees, would set up short term production elsewhwhere until they went broke or ran out of parts. I had heard, 7-8 years ago that Sheldons were being made in Sydney from parts, but with names like Sheldon, Sebastion, and Sydney confusing me wouldn't be hard. South Bend, I believe was resurrected at least once. 5 or 6 years ago a former employee of D.C. Morrison came to me with a deal. He had a price from DCM for all the castings and other misc. parts to make the old Logan lathe, also patterns, jigs, etc. We went over to DCM and looked over what they had. Aside from 30-40 steadyrests, and like number of tailstocks, I couldn't see any money. I sat down with the young man and went over facts. How many lathes could he build from the parts? How long would it take? What would the retail value be? I had the space and machinery to make them, so nothing was needed there. The cost of the DCM deal really wasn't unreasonable. But, if he was retired (he wasn't), and needed no money whatsoever (he needed money), and there were no additional costs or overhead (ha,ha,ha), it would take 5 years just to get the purchase money back. About that time you would be out of parts and back where you started. As tempting as it was to own a lathe marque and manufacture lathes, I just couldn't afford it.
 
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