Kowa TSN 820M Spotting Scope

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Prelude 2.0

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I have an opportunity to purchase a used Kowa TSN 820M Prominar ED, Fluoride Crystal Lens- extra low dispersion optical glass lens, spotting scope with a fixed 25X long eye relief eyepiece, that's in excellent condition. It comes with a Creedmoor soft scope case. I believe this model has been discontinued by Kowa. The owner wants $900. Is that a fair price? Thanks in advance for your input.
 
It's probably somewhat high, but he's no doubt pricing it relative to current alternatives. That said it's a great optic, I love mine but several years back NYC places like Audorama camera sold that with the 20-60x eyepiece wich cost more than the body for $800 or so all in.
 
I have an opportunity to purchase a used Kowa TSN 820M Prominar ED, Fluoride Crystal Lens- extra low dispersion optical glass lens, spotting scope with a fixed 25X long eye relief eyepiece, that's in excellent condition. It comes with a Creedmoor soft scope case. I believe this model has been discontinued by Kowa. The owner wants $900. Is that a fair price? Thanks in advance for your input.

That sounds like a fair price if in great condition.
 
I also concur on a fair price. The Flouride coating was $300.00 extra when I bought mine several years ago. If you are looking for a spotting scope stand , I have a couple that I would part with . One is a Jim Owens , the other is a Champions choice. I have went to using a Camera tripod(Bogen) with Manfrotto head . Ballard shooter
 
I also concur on a fair price. The Flouride coating was $300.00 extra when I bought mine several years ago. If you are looking for a spotting scope stand , I have a couple that I would part with . One is a Jim Owens , the other is a Champions choice. I have went to using a Camera tripod(Bogen) with Manfrotto head . Ballard shooter

The info regarding the extra cost for the Prominar ED - fluorite crystal objective lens is helpful. Thanks, Ballard Shooter. I couldn't find any cost info for any of the discontinued Kowa scopes. Thanks for the offer Ballard Shooter, but I have a Freeland bipod that I purchased for my Nikon spotting scope a few years ago. Prelude
 
I have an opportunity to purchase a used Kowa TSN 820M Prominar ED, Fluoride Crystal Lens- extra low dispersion optical glass lens, spotting scope with a fixed 25X long eye relief eyepiece, that's in excellent condition. It comes with a Creedmoor soft scope case. I believe this model has been discontinued by Kowa. The owner wants $900. Is that a fair price? Thanks in advance for your input.

What do you plan to use the scope for?
 
i make a suggestion look for a kowa tsn-2 i used to see them on ebay quite reasonably. lots of eyepieces available to tinker with.

bob
 
If this Kowa is truly a fluorite lens scope and in good condition it is a bargain at 900 bucks. Fluorite lenses have a significant reduction in chromatic aberration, rendering a very clean, sharp color free image. They are generally, if well made, superior in color correction to ED glass refractors. A refractor bends incoming light rays. When you do this you have to bring the different wavelengths of light back to a very tight focus to not get color fringing. Fluorite lenses do a remarkable job doing this. Greg

http://www.eurooptic.com/kowa.aspx
 
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If this Kowa is truly a fluorite lens scope and in good condition it is a bargain at 900 bucks. Fluorite lenses have a significant reduction in chromatic aberration, rendering a very clean, sharp color free image. They are generally, if we'll made, superior in color correction to ED glass refractors. A refractor bends incoming light rays. When you do this you have to bring the different wavelengths of light back to a very tight focus to not get color fringing. Fluorite lenses do a remarkable job in doing this. Greg

http://www.eurooptic.com/kowa.aspx

I noticed that "PROMINAR" is not printed on the sellers scope but it has a narrow RED stripe around the scope. A picture at the top of the eurooptic.com website shows a guy looking through a straight scope with the red stripe. It's similar to that scope. The seller said it's an early model that doesn't have the PROMINAR printed on the scope. The seller said that the red stripe signifies that the scope has a fluorite crystal obective lens system. Can anyone confirm his statement?

I know another seller that has a Kowa 821 angled scope (non-Prominar) with a 20~60 eyepiece that wants $700 including a soft cover and bracket for the scope. I'm leaning towards his scope since it has the 20~60 eyepiece. But I've read that any power setting over 30X reduces the eye relief substantially. The 25X eyepiece on the first sellers ED scope is suppose to have a long eye relief feature. I'll be shooting rimfire up to 100 yards. Would a 25X eyepiece be sufficient for my purposes? i.e to see .22 holes? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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What do you plan to use the scope for?

I'll be using the scope primarily for Rimfire benchrest shooting at 50 yards but may shoot up to 100 yards occasionally. I'm also planning to shoot rimfire (.22LR) prone matches in the near future. They shoot 50 yards, 50 meters and 100 yards.
 
FYI:
Fluorite is a man made (grown/cultured) crystal material that has been out for quite a few years.
Most early scopes had a one piece objective lens (Crown Glass) which alone gave a horrible amount of chromatic aberration. Early scopes used "stops" or internal rings which cut down on the color fringe but also cut down the effective amount of available light. Then came doublets or two piece objectives having a crown glass outer lens cemented to a flint glass inner lens which brought more of white light's many wavelengths closer to the same focal point. If you slipped slightly past focus in or out you would notice a color shift of red fringe to blue around the centered object.
When they developed triplet lenses by adding a fluorite lens to the other two this chromatic aberration was further reduced.
There were problems with some of the early fluorite lenses, although I cannot recall them specifically, I believe they were brittle (I could be wrong on this).
The early cement used on doublets was refined tree sap, when it delaminated it appeared as bubbles in the lens. Some types of "growth" would also contaminate these early lenses. Some tried to eliminate this problem by "air spacing" with shims of metal foil (basically tabs) around the outside of the lenses. Drawback to this was light and contrast lost to internal reflections from every air to glass surface. Multicoatings made great progress by cutting down the amount of reflected light.
Optical designs incorporating mirrors greatly reduce the amount of chromatic aberration as well as quite a few other issues of conventional refractor scopes, but at the cost of depth of field.
Hope this helps, and yeah, my spellings only aprox.
;)
Take care,
warren
Edited to add: The reason you do not see gigantic telescopes with these composite lens elements is lens sag, the glass actually flexes adding distortion if you go past 40 inches or so in diameter.
 
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I'll be using the scope primarily for Rimfire benchrest shooting at 50 yards but may shoot up to 100 yards occasionally. I'm also planning to shoot rimfire (.22LR) prone matches in the near future. They shoot 50 yards, 50 meters and 100 yards.

While 80 MM scopes are great and will work for Benchrest shooting, I find them too big to be practical and not easy often to find room for. Also the bigger a scope gets, the more it weighs and the more surface area is exposed to the wind. Any scope becomes nearly useless if it moves when one is trying to see something through it. Over the years, I have found that a 60MM is plenty out to 300 yds, lighter most often and a lot easier to find a convenient place to mount. I have resisted spending a lot of money on a better scope than the Japanese Redfield I have used for 5 or more years because of the size issue. I tried an 80MM Nikon but sold it quickly because I found the problems I mentioned earlier.

For the Budget Minded, one can buy a Celestron ED for medium money. I have looked through them and they are pretttty dern good for what they cost, even the non ED lense models. I haven't seen a model of theirs that I found appealing physically so I haven't sprung for one yet and hey, my old Redfield does all I need it to do. For viewing targets when not shooting a good 80MM on a very good tripod would be the superb; mebby even a 100MM. Here again, the scope will be only as good as the tripod it is mounted on.
 
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I noticed that "PROMINAR" is not printed on the sellers scope but it has a narrow RED stripe around the scope. A picture at the top of the eurooptic.com website shows a guy looking through a straight scope with the red stripe. It's similar to that scope. The seller said it's an early model that doesn't have the PROMINAR printed on the scope. The seller said that the red stripe signifies that the scope has a fluorite crystal obective lens system. Can anyone confirm his statement?


I know another seller that has a Kowa 821 angled scope (non-Prominar) with a 20~60 eyepiece that wants $700 including a soft cover and bracket for the scope. I'm leaning towards his scope since it has the 20~60 eyepiece. But I've read that any power setting over 30X reduces the eye relief substantially. The 25X eyepiece on the first sellers ED scope is suppose to have a long eye relief feature. I'll be shooting rimfire up to 100 yards. Would a 25X eyepiece be sufficient for my purposes? i.e to see .22 holes? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.


IMHO a 25x eye piece will be ok for 100 yds except in the most dismal mirage situations.
 
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