It is B. S. To score 30 Cal vs 6ppc in score match

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DocDiesel

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For a long time I refused to shoot 100 yards in a score match against 30 caliber rifles. Today I got my new 30 caliber rifle and confirmed my suspicions. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm not so sure at 200 yards but time will tell. I enjoy taking new people shooting to encourage them into our sport. After they enjoyed it the question always comes up "what does it cost? Well let's think the super shoot demonstrated that the 6PPC is the master of the group shoots. So if a newbie wants to shoot I would suggest the 6PPC first. So let's start with $2500-$3000. Add a scope somewhere between 750 and $2000. A front rest for another 600 ± and a rare rest for another hundred dollars with the sand. Bullets pounder and primer are not cheap. Then comes the big BUT. If you want to be competitive in score shooting you will need a 30 Cal. It's probably cheaper to go out and get an AR 15 and shoot position or belly shoot.

I am NOT against shooting score with a 30 caliber rifle but it should be scored in a separate class. I had suggested this to Joe Krupa to present at the Eastern regional meeting but apparently it never came up. Our NBSRA membership is down substantially and we wonder why or how we could improve the membership.

I've shot for about 10 years at Western Wayne and in our group shoots we have generally had in the low 30s for attendance (I know because I've been that low) the last shoot was modified to include rail guns so the attendance now is down to 20 despite the fact that only two of our members have rail guns and only five more were brought. With seven benches shooting rail guns the rest of the shooters got to practice. Our Canadian champions didn't come.

It is absolutely critical that we define a stable competitive platform for newbies to invest in our sport at a reasonable cost. If not, the increasing cost of the sport and the transportation will leave us with a bunch of local groups shooting less than 10 competitors.

Fritz Rector (for reasons not clear to me am unable to use my regular sign in name)
 
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You are beating your head against the wall. I finally deleted my multi page thread 'Light Varmint for Score' . I wish you had have been contributing to it.

GOOD LUCK
 
Once you have shot say 10-250-25x targets in competition we will begin to believe the Fish in the Barrel line. There is a shooter in our group who uses that line and whenever he sez it he promptlly shoot a 9 on his first record target.

Perhaps you are a lot better than all the other shooters shooting score, including a few HOF shooters. I guess time will tell. Just curious, why do you think the 6 PPC has to be the criterion for Benchrest shooting?

Benchrest shooting is no more costly than any number of other sports out there. We don't have more people doing it because most people shooting don't want to compete. There are lots of folks in America who own benchrest rifles, all the equipment to include bullet making dies who will not compete. We can't make them if they don't want to, can we?
 
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Pete Wass said:
Just curious, why do you think the 6 PPC has to be the criterion for Benchrest shooting?
Click to expand...

Because every book ever written about BR says so. The newbie gets himself a 6PPC and thinks he is set for life. Lots of 6BR's out there also.
 
The last supershoot top twenty all shot 6ppc

Pete Wass said:
Once you have shot say 10-250-25x targets in competition we will begin to believe the Fish in the Barrel line. There is a shooter in our group who uses that line and whenever he sez it he promptlly shoot a 9 on his first record target.

Perhaps you are a lot better than all the other shooters shooting score, including a few HOF shooters. I guess time will tell. Just curious, why do you think the 6 PPC has to be the criterion for Benchrest shooting?
Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong but the top twenty at the supershoot this year ALL shot 6ppc s
 
I stopped shooting score benchrest when the 30BR came along. I just didn't feel like re-barreling, buying new dies and springing for the significant extra cost for 30 cal bullets just to stay competitive. So I gave up on IBS score altogether and moved on to Ground Hog matches. Sold the PPC too. Would I have kept shooting if they would have had two classes? Probably yes. Would I go back now? Probably No.
 
I have been shooting Score since 1999 and never used a 6PPC. I bought one but had it re-barreled. I never believed the 6PPC to be THE ONE to have. We don't have Group Shooting in Maine. Perhaps that is the reason we don't have 30 problems. Actually, we and some of the Southerners brought the 30's to the Score Shooting World. The others weren't long catching up, in spite of their nay saying.

After Jackie's potential record there seems to be a flurry of folks building 30's. Perhaps the King is dead or at least ailing.
 
You miss if point !!

Pete Wass said:
When was the last time they shot Score at the Super Shoot?
Click to expand...

For group shooting the supershoot tells the story. If you goal in life is to shoot only score then shoot away with you .30 and I wish you all the luck
 
I haven't missed the point. It's starting to come to light that the short 30's are more accurate than the 6PPC. I suspect the .222 folks felt the same way when the 6 PPC came along.

I don't understand why you believe that both Score and Group have to be so common that the same rifle has to be used in both.

It isn't the cost that keeps folks out of our sports.
 
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DocDiesel...I believe you are on the wrong track if you think NBRSA or IBS ranks are shrinking because of the dominanace of one caliber in one discipline...I am the Match Director for Score matches at our club...match attendance has declined somewhat...but it is a variety of causes...in my opinion the biggest draw away from score or group shooting is Rimfire Benchrest...it is growing by leaps and bounds...but that is just in my area....also people sometimes just loose interest in a sport because it doesn;t fire up their competitive personality...we have many benchrest rifles setting idle in my corner of Texas...and most of the time it is conflicting schedules of other competition, work, or family...I have been beaten by a 6ppc recently in a score shoot...because the rifle and shooter was better than every 30BR on the line...Pete is correct with his statements as well...there are a few shooters that will quit because of the 30BR dominanace...but there was also a small percentage of Rimfire BR shooters that quit when they approved the one piece "Pappas" style rifle rest...every sport is going to have people that drop out for one reason or another...If you have been around Benchrest long enough to remember the .222 vs the 6ppc...you will know that a small percentage thought that the dominanace of the 6ppc was unfair...
In my opinion you and others are right to give up on score shooting if you feel the 30BR is unfair...but what ever competitive sport you get into is going to have a dominant piece of equipment.."must have to win"...and you will buy it or loose....thats just the way device sports work....

By the way ever try ground hog hunting without a scoped rifle?...yep another must have to be successful...:rolleyes:

Eddie in Texas
 
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Doc,
How about the 30 Gorilla?
6.5 Grendel case. Same bolt. A little more kick.
Larry Feusse has the reamer....

I am still, not convinced. about the 30BR over the 6PPC.
Dana makes a point about the 6PPC beating the 30 at WWCCA.
By the way. A "certain shooter" was shooting his 30BR. In matches at WWCCA.
And the 6PPC beat him. 4 mos...??????
 
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Doc Diesel, there are usually 300 plus shooters at the Super Shoot. The vast majority are no where near competitive, in fact, once you get past the top 50, agging in the "threes" is the norm. Guess what they are all shooting. A 6PPC.

I shoot the entire gamut, Unlimited with my Rail Gun, Sporter, LV, HV, and Varmint for Score. Yes, I put forth the effort to build a Rifle for the Score Game.

Guess what. It is probably the most accurate Rifle I own at this time. I just happen to have a couple of great barrels, and some great bullets.

In the Houston area, more shooters are building 30BR's than any other Benchrest Rifle. The reason is they like shooting score.


I will repeat what others have said. Go shoot a couple of 25x targets at 100, or maybe several 15+x targets at 200 before you lament about the current score system........jackie
 
30 BR at WWCCA is not a winner.
A 30 gorilla is a winner. And a 6.5 is a winner. For Score.
But, the driver is Larry Feusse. Last year, he won "The Michigan Score Shoot Championship".
4 clubs. 2 shoots each. 8 Score shoots total.
This year, he told me he was going to use a 6.5 Grendel.

Work has kept me from most of the matches.
But, in Sept. We have the weekend off. I hope.
Sept. 18.
 
The last WWCCA shoot was for the "Michigan 4 Gun Championship".
4 classes of Gun. NBRSA. 200 y.
A great place to test the 30BR and 6PPC.
Um, no equipment list.....
Okay it was a lot of fun....

By the way. There were several club members that were not present.....:mad:
It was a good time.
200 YARDS SHOULD NOT SCARE ANYONE. It's just another target.......:mad:

And 25 bullets. 25 primers.......:rolleyes:
 
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If I had to have only one caliber to shoot both group and score, it'd be a 30.
As for the cost being more to shoot a 30, it's actually cheaper to shoot a 30 than a 6 if you factor in barrel life.
I think a major consideration as to which cal. to build is what discipline is most appealing AND how far you have to travel to shoot either. For me, it's about 5hrs to the nearest group shoot, whereas I have 3 different clubs to shoot score within 1-3hrs of me.
Oh, I forgot to mention, score is harder than group:D--Mike
 
i find it totally amazing that a bunch of people see no problem shooting one gun in three or four classes, but when they get thier collective butts handed to them by a different round...well then its "time to level the playing field".
MY SUGGESTION TO YOU SHORT RANGE BR SHOOTERS IS TO FIX YOUR OWN GAME, before trying to reinvent score shooting.
require four guns in a four gun match...make four seperate classes, not four titles shot with one gun.
fix the short range group game first.......you have four classes by name, but not in reality....
get rules that clearly require four guns for the four classes.
you got lots to do before stepping in someone elses game..

but ohh noo THAT aint gonna happen......shoot something other than a 6ppc...no way.

again , and again its whinning from the 6ppc lemming crowd......
its short range group that is broken, not score.

for the record my club only shoots score....

mike in co
 
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To the OP:

Shoot the game that you like to shoot and the round that you like to shoot.

If you think you have a better mouse trap a'la Danny Hensley's new game, then man up and put on matches at your local club. The shooters will then vote with their time and money.

If you come on here and vent about the 30 BR dominating IBS score shooting, you're just pissing into the wind.

Greg J
 
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I will go along with mike about the ranges that shoot group is zero here in KY. We have 2 ranges that shoot score. I don't know what all the crying is about. If you feel like you can't compete in score with your PPC's then shoot in your group shoots. You don't hear the score shooters complain about shooting groups. If you can't stand the fire get out of the kitchen.
 
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