Issue with new Bix N Andy trigger install in BAT action (Bolt closes really hard)

M

marwitz89

Guest
I recently sold my Jewell trigger and installed a Bix N Andy trigger in my BAT MB action. After installing the trigger, the bolt closes much harder even with no round in the chamber compared to the Jewell trigger being installed. There is resistance the entire time I am closing the bolt. I tried rotating the trigger inside of the trigger hanger but that did not fix the issue. The trigger does work but I also noticed that the trigger will go off without touching it if I close the bolt too fast and hard. I'm not a gunsmith or a trigger expert by no means. Any thoughts or suggestions? I was thinking of sending it to BAT or bulletcentral (where I bought the trigger) but I'm not sure if they do gunsmith work like this.

Thanks,
Joe
 
Issue with Bix n andy trigger

This month's issue of Precision Rifleman has an article by Boyd Allen that address the issue although he was using a Viper action. The current production of Bix n Andy triggers are supposed to have a slightly longer sear that matches that of the Jewell. Unfortunately, not every Jewell trigger ever made is the same. New BAT actions usually come with 2 trigger hangars, with 4 possible positions. I would call BAT, they should be able to fix your issue. As to having the striker fall when closing the bolt; you probably need a little more engagement. I found the instructions that came with the trigger to be easy to follow. If you just can not get your trigger adjusted to be safe, a visit to your gunsmith may be necessary. Call Chris Harris at Bullet Central and he should be able to point you in the right direction.
 
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It is called Trigger Timing

Sear position in the new trigger is very different from the old trigger., this used to happen with Jewel triggers sometimes, but they seem to have tightened their tolerances. Talk to Bat about a new trigger hanger.
Dick

PS: never sell anything that is working good for you until you are sure you like the new item better.
 
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Dick Grosbier said:
Sear position in the new trigger is very different from the old trigger., this used to happen with Jewel triggers sometimes, but they seem to have tightened their tolerances. Talk to Bat about a new trigger hanger.
Dick

PS: never sell anything that is working good for you until you are sure you like the new item better.
Click to expand...

Good advice.... LOVE the trigger. Hate how the bolt closes at this moment until fixed..
 
marwitz89 said:
Hate how the bolt closes at this moment until fixed..
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I have a name brand action that they screwed up the timing by about an eight of an inch. It was big time hard to close bolt. Sear was picking up firing pin way before bolt handle even started closing. Took me a while to figure out the issue, even though the action is CNC machined the fact that I shoot left bolt actions apparently involves a couple items done by hand. Taught me a lot about Bolt timing.
Dick
 
Dick Grosbier said:
Sear position in the new trigger is very different from the old trigger., this used to happen with Jewel triggers sometimes, but they seem to have tightened their tolerances. Talk to Bat about a new trigger hanger.
Dick

PS: never sell anything that is working good for you until you are sure you like the new item better.
Click to expand...

Dick, this is not entirely accurate but I do know that there is a little confusion out there on the various versions. I would put that down to my fault not properly communicating the various stages of development.

A little history to help those identify a potential mismatch:

- when the first prototypes (10 of) were introduced the sear timing was forward of where a standard Rem or Jewell trigger due to the fact that the measurement was taken off a Jewell that did not measure up to standard specification.

- we then introduced sold 100 triggers with the sear set back in the correct position. These triggers worked great but about 25% of them did not work in a BAT DS or B action as the firing pin sear rode a little higher than other actions (such as Rem, Panda, Stiller, etc). These triggers worked very well in a the Rimfire world as they were not using BAT actions. Another tiny matter was that the angle of the sear was not 100% parallel to the firing pin sear also due to measurements taken off the Jewell trigger. This was not an issue at all but we wanted it sorted out. Anyone that is still using this trigger in a BAT action, even if it is working great, should contact us to get a free replacement. There is a chance that wear could introduce a problem in time and the firing pin sear could ride over the top of the trigger sear. We have replaced most of them but I do not get to speak to all customers.

- our subsequent batches have been almost flawless. The sear is in the correct timed position (which has never changed other than for the first 10), the angle is 100% parallel with the firing pin sear and there are slight chamfers on the side of the sear to ensure zero contact with the action (this was introduced in case some actions had burrs or slight restriction in the trigger bay). You will also notice that many of the new triggers have an insert in the sear to switch around from "BR" to "Rem 700". It is unlikely that you will ever need to play with this as it is only there for some Remington action where the firing pin sear is 0.047" forward.

The machining on these triggers is very precise. There should be no difference whatsoever (less than 0.001") from trigger to trigger.


If there are questions please do not hesitate to respond here or call me.

701 729 2929
Chris
 
marwitz89 said:
I recently sold my Jewell trigger and installed a Bix N Andy trigger in my BAT MB action. After installing the trigger, the bolt closes much harder even with no round in the chamber compared to the Jewell trigger being installed. There is resistance the entire time I am closing the bolt. I tried rotating the trigger inside of the trigger hanger but that did not fix the issue. The trigger does work but I also noticed that the trigger will go off without touching it if I close the bolt too fast and hard. I'm not a gunsmith or a trigger expert by no means. Any thoughts or suggestions? I was thinking of sending it to BAT or bulletcentral (where I bought the trigger) but I'm not sure if they do gunsmith work like this.

Thanks,
Joe
Click to expand...

Joe, you must be the gentleman I spoke with recently. As discussed, I am fairly confident that we have a "timing problem" with that action. Somehow the firing pin is cocking on closing and causing that 'heavy bolt close' feel. If the trigger is going off on closing the bolt then we have a sear engagement issue. The trigger shoe pressure has to be heavy before any other adjustments are made. So first screw the trigger shoe set screw in a little. Then one can adjust the sear.

It is obvious that such a situation is massively undesirable and dangerous. Instructions are provided but in order to set the sear one has to screw the sear engagement set screw in carefully until a cocked firing pin falls. Then back off the sear set screw about 90 degrees (quarter turn) to start with. The rifle should not slam fire but if it does then back out the screw an eight turn and try again. I have never had to back the sear engagement screw more than 90 degrees from the fall position but I have heard that others have had to. It is hard to say what their situation was without having the rifle.

Once the sear is set you can start lowering the trigger shoe pressure by backing out the set screw in the face of the trigger shoe. You should be able to set the trigger VERY light without any chance of a slam fire.

Call me for any help. We do do gun-smithing if you want me to take care of this.

Chris
701 729 2929
 
you need a different trigger hanger. bat is aware and has them in stock and I believe they sent chris some for sale as well.
 
Chris Harris said:
Dick, this is not entirely accurate but I do know that there is a little confusion out there on the various versions. I would put that down to my fault not properly communicating the various stages of development.

A little history to help those identify a potential mismatch:
Click to expand...

First off Chris I have no idea who you are, but you seem to speak as if you are the manufacturer of the trigger. I do not understand what I said that was not accurate. Please enlighten me, having never laid eyes on one of your triggers I was referring to variations in Jewell triggers and the fact that the sear engagement point on the new trigger MUST be substantially different from the Jewell he removed. Just what is the problem if it is not the firing pin picking up the sear prematurely.
Thanks
Dick
 
Dick Grosbier said:
First off Chris I have no idea who you are, but you seem to speak as if you are the manufacturer of the trigger. I do not understand what I said that was not accurate. Please enlighten me, having never laid eyes on one of your triggers I was referring to variations in Jewell triggers and the fact that the sear engagement point on the new trigger MUST be substantially different from the Jewell he removed. Just what is the problem if it is not the firing pin picking up the sear prematurely.
Thanks
Dick
Click to expand...

Dick,

I was referring to this comment of yours: "Sear position in the new trigger is very different from the old trigger., this used to happen with Jewel triggers sometimes,...". I presume (maybe incorrectly) that you were referring to a BnA trigger. So all I am informing people about is that is not the case. It is not "very different" at all but as I explained above there have been minor changes to ensure that all BAT actions can engage the BnA sear.

We (Bullet Central) are the importers and distributors of the Bix 'n Andy trigger and I own the company.

You are welcome to call me to discuss further. Hope you get a chance to shoot a BnA someday. I think you will like it.

regards
Chris
701 7292929
 
Chris Harris said:
Lol! First Cactus and now Hogroast. No fun I can tell you. I will try my EZ-Up again but if I get blown away I am moving on to some other technology.
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Ben Avery Range windy? Who Knew? Seriously though, when we were there for the WBC in 1997, it blew down the huge marquee that we were reloading in, and it's the only range where we had to secure the wind indicator poles with tent pegs and ropes!

Brendan Atkinson
 
i bought a Bix&Andy trigger to replace an OLD Hart trigger.
The B&A is the best trigger i ever felt. totally awesome..
the one difference I see is the B&A has about .040 less
firingpin fall. Idon't think it really matters as it is in an
blueprinted Remington action. if it does,, I'll have to cut
out the action and put a trigger hanger in it, and make a hanger to suite.
But I dont see that happening.
the B&A came with the middle weight spring installed. As close as I can
weigh it , it is about one ounce and 3/4. I cant see ever putting the
light spring in it.
the action never felt smoother.
 
Ken Livengood said:
i bought a Bix&Andy trigger to replace an OLD Hart trigger.
The B&A is the best trigger i ever felt. totally awesome..
the one difference I see is the B&A has about .040 less
firingpin fall. Idon't think it really matters as it is in an
blueprinted Remington action. if it does,, I'll have to cut
out the action and put a trigger hanger in it, and make a hanger to suite.
But I dont see that happening.
the B&A came with the middle weight spring installed. As close as I can
weigh it , it is about one ounce and 3/4. I cant see ever putting the
light spring in it.
the action never felt smoother.
Click to expand...

Ken, I just saw this post. The BnA should not have any less pin-fall than a standard Jewell unless you bought a version with the sear insert that allows for two timing positions - one 0.047" forward of the standard setting. I am keen to learn more about your issue if this is not the case.

I would not advocate a situation where you find you are not getting enough pin-fall - likely disastrous for accuracy. If however you are 'cocking on closing' you may want to reduce your pin-fall. Most shooters do not like that action at the top of the bolt close. I do not think it affects accuracy negatively other than the potential that it can upset your position in the bags.

Chris
 
I got my Panda action back from Dwight the other day with my second BnA Trigger (first one is in a Bat3L) and it had a strange looking trigger hanger with a note inside the box to call Dwight. When I called Dwight he explained that it is a prototype adjustable hanger from Chris and that the action can be bedded with this hanger but to wait until I got the real hanger before shooting it much. The hanger came in the mail yesterday from Chris (a lot sooner than expected). I don't think we could have engineered or machined it any better, simple and effective, just the way we like stuff. Nice work Chris.
 
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