It sure seems to me like all sorts of shooting world records are being set on a weekly basis. Everything from Jackie's amazing 30br group record to 600 yards records and even a 1000 yard record. I think we must really be lucky to live in a time were the equipment and components we use are better than they have ever been. I think it allows good fellas like Jackie to shoot to there highest potential. On the other hand it makes me wonder what another 10 years will be like. Can it get any better?? Lee
Is it just me, or are all the records falling!!
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
jackie schmidt
New member
Skeet, in 10 years, Clubs might have to invest in electron microscopes to measure the difference in the groups or targets
Last years Nationals were a big eye openner for a bunch of us. Watching shooters like Jack Neary, Tony Boyer, Gene Bukys, and others just blow right past the existing records was sometime frustrating, but in the end, inspiring.
Benchrest is sort of like NHRA Pro Stock. The same set of rules have been in affect for years but the competitors seem to find more speed and quicker times. 500 Cubic Inches, 2350 pounds, Carburation. The same in Benchrest. Except for a few additions such as tuners, the rules are virtually unchanged in 20 years. But the aggs keep getting smaller, and the scores higher.............jackie
Last years Nationals were a big eye openner for a bunch of us. Watching shooters like Jack Neary, Tony Boyer, Gene Bukys, and others just blow right past the existing records was sometime frustrating, but in the end, inspiring.
Benchrest is sort of like NHRA Pro Stock. The same set of rules have been in affect for years but the competitors seem to find more speed and quicker times. 500 Cubic Inches, 2350 pounds, Carburation. The same in Benchrest. Except for a few additions such as tuners, the rules are virtually unchanged in 20 years. But the aggs keep getting smaller, and the scores higher.............jackie
M
model14
Guest
Gotta be the bullets. I don't think us humans are improving at anything anymore!
I personally find all of it fascinating on one hand, and a little overwhelming on the other. A fella like myself that loves to shoot and really enjoys the game, cant help but think, "how in the world will i ever compete with those guys" Then again on a third hand, im not so sure winning is my main goal anymore. I competed and traveled with the shotguns shooting sporting clays for about 10 years. I did well, but there was always a hole other level of shooters above me, even though i was a masterclass shooter " the highest level in sporting clays" I would shoot 500-600 shells a week getting in the mode for the weekend shoot, just so i could give those guys my best run. It was a lot like work after a while. . I think this time around with the rifles, its more about good people, good times, and fine rifles, and just getting away from daily life. Sure i would like to win and i will try always, but my goals are a little different this time i think. Its pretty nice sitting at the bench and not being in a panic attack mode worrying about throwing a shot. LOL!! I remeber times in sporting clays were i would actually shake so bad in the shoot box i couldnt hardly even load the gun. I wanted to win that bad!! Anyway im getting off subject. I just feel lucky to have the things i do, and witness good people doing extraordinary things. Life is good!! Lee
Centerfire
Member
Good Bullets---Better barrels
Good Bullets---Better barrels
etc
Centerfire
Good Bullets---Better barrels
etc
Centerfire
Jim Borden
New member
Pete
In my thirty years experience shooting BR--bullets are far more important than teh barrels and after you have had some "superman" bullets that you shoot in a barrel and compare to regular bullets you will understand.
Jim
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Jim,
From what I have seen and the way I have always tuned, it's the length of the ogive that determines how good or bad bullets are. Very rarely do I get bullets that have consitent ogive lengths. I have had some but it is rare to get them. I went to sorting them by length several years ago and since, I have had no problems with bullets. Spin en in the "Junikie" all ya want but if they are all seated the same and all the other stuff is right, they will all go into a hole, from what I have seen so far.
In any given lot of 1000 bullets there is a Bell Curve of ogive lengths. What is the real accuracy killer is those few on the bottom of the Bell. I think the Magic you see in certain lots is the consistency of ogive lengths. If one loads randomly from the box that aren't consistently the same length they are sure to have a few flyers which could have been prevented by measuring them.
From what I have seen and the way I have always tuned, it's the length of the ogive that determines how good or bad bullets are. Very rarely do I get bullets that have consitent ogive lengths. I have had some but it is rare to get them. I went to sorting them by length several years ago and since, I have had no problems with bullets. Spin en in the "Junikie" all ya want but if they are all seated the same and all the other stuff is right, they will all go into a hole, from what I have seen so far.
In any given lot of 1000 bullets there is a Bell Curve of ogive lengths. What is the real accuracy killer is those few on the bottom of the Bell. I think the Magic you see in certain lots is the consistency of ogive lengths. If one loads randomly from the box that aren't consistently the same length they are sure to have a few flyers which could have been prevented by measuring them.
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Jim Borden
New member
Bullets
Pete
I have experienced vast performance differences in bullets off the same dies with different jacket lots. I am serious--once you have had jackets that make consistently sub .1 agg potential bullets compared with others that are so so off the same die-you will understand what i and some others are saying. I agree that the bearing length consistency and ogive to base consistency that you talk about are important--but do not discount the difference in performance of some lots of jackets. You will not be able to measure the difference in the bullets once they are made except by spinning them down the barrel. With the 30's we have been very blessed with superb jackets (similar to a situation we had in the late 70's with 6mm jackets).
Testing multiple lots of jackets with the same dies and barrels can easily illustrate this important variable.
Pete--it is the consistency of the runout along with some metallurgy things that differentiates. been around long enough to have done the sorting you are talking about --that may get rid of the flyers--but does not turn jackets that result in .18 agg averages into .12 agg averages.
Jim
Pete
I have experienced vast performance differences in bullets off the same dies with different jacket lots. I am serious--once you have had jackets that make consistently sub .1 agg potential bullets compared with others that are so so off the same die-you will understand what i and some others are saying. I agree that the bearing length consistency and ogive to base consistency that you talk about are important--but do not discount the difference in performance of some lots of jackets. You will not be able to measure the difference in the bullets once they are made except by spinning them down the barrel. With the 30's we have been very blessed with superb jackets (similar to a situation we had in the late 70's with 6mm jackets).
Testing multiple lots of jackets with the same dies and barrels can easily illustrate this important variable.
Pete--it is the consistency of the runout along with some metallurgy things that differentiates. been around long enough to have done the sorting you are talking about --that may get rid of the flyers--but does not turn jackets that result in .18 agg averages into .12 agg averages.
Jim
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333smitty
Tomball Gun Club
Lee
A while back at a match at Midland,Tx, I had the good fortune to meet a fellow competitor who is a shotgun legend that has taken up point blank Benchrest as a hobby and has done quite well for himself.
His name is Britt Robinson maybe you have heard of him.
A while back at a match at Midland,Tx, I had the good fortune to meet a fellow competitor who is a shotgun legend that has taken up point blank Benchrest as a hobby and has done quite well for himself.
His name is Britt Robinson maybe you have heard of him.
smitty yes i have heard of Britt. I have never meet him but i understand that he is a super guy. Please dont confuse me with him though. I was most certainly no legend. I have a little talent with a shotgun but i would never be able to feed my family doing so. Actually i had to work very hard to make the state team and i shot my butt of to do as well as i did in the us open a few years back. My goal was to make master class, and eventually i did but it wasnt easy. Im just not so sure i want to go back to that life style with the rifles. First of all i dont think i have the ability, and secondly i have a young family that i enjoy spending time with. I enjoy the people i meet at the shoots and i enjoy the rifles and reloading and i think as long as i continue to improve my shooting thats will be winning enough for me. There is a heck of a lot of good shooters out there and i dont want to make myself go crazy trying to figure out how to beat them!! LOL!!! Im crazy enough the way it is!! Have a great weekend fellas!! Lee
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jackie schmidt
New member
As for bullets, we have all seen "hot lots" come and go. Back in the late 90's, Jeff Fowler had some bullets out that were some of the best I have ever seen. For a couple of years, we all feasted at that trough, then something happenned. The next lots were not quite as good. As Jim said, probably the jacket quality.
I still think that a lot of this game is about the big three. Bullets, Barrels, and Tuning. Get those three right, and it is amazing how sweet life can be.
Pete, I have to ask.How are you checking your ogive lengths.I have a rig that I made that measures from the base to a specific point on the ogive, (about 2/3 way up), and I will periodically check some bullets. I have never found even .001 difference in any lot of Barts, Brunos, or BIB'S, as long as they are out of the same lot number........jackie
I still think that a lot of this game is about the big three. Bullets, Barrels, and Tuning. Get those three right, and it is amazing how sweet life can be.
Pete, I have to ask.How are you checking your ogive lengths.I have a rig that I made that measures from the base to a specific point on the ogive, (about 2/3 way up), and I will periodically check some bullets. I have never found even .001 difference in any lot of Barts, Brunos, or BIB'S, as long as they are out of the same lot number........jackie
Bill Wynne
Active member
Al has it right as usual. We have a relatively small group of people across the world who are sharing the small details of what works in the prusuit of accuracy in firearms. Wilbur Harris with this forum on the internet has provided a very good conduit for information sharing.
Thanks Wilbur.
Bill