IMR8208XBR and accurate scales

bryan

bryan

Bryan Armatys
I've watched the posts on this new powder and those on the very accurate scales that are available. Does this all mean that preloading or pre-weighing charges into vials is likely to be the norm? Does this mean that tuners will be relagated to optimising a particular barrel, or go into the "history" bin?
The winner will now be the guy that reads the wind better than anyone else?
Sounds like "all else being equal" may be just that.
Comments?
Bryan
 
Bryan

I think those that are winning now will still be winning, Tony will still be at the top of the heap, and those of us that have been finishing second will still be the first place loser's. For me that would be a big improvement, I'll take first place loser to the big names anytime. (or however is first):D
I do believe it is more than just a magic potion (powder), the best reader of the conditions will win, no matter, maybe they'll not have to work as hard.

Dan Honert
 
It's Still About The Tune

All this talk about the new powder does not change one fact. If you can keep the Rifle in tune, you have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Remember, in the "glory days" of past, and those legendary powders, the last place shooter was probably shooting the same powder as the first.........jackie
 
if the new powder is like the old powder, that is it meters very well, and performs well ......then only the very best will see an advantage of a very accurate scale.
a combination of the new powder,more precise powder charge, and a tuner....add a excellent wind reader.....who knows...


mike in co
 
I think the main reason for the move to weighing charges has much to do with the the powder being used by most. I've spent a little time weighing thrown charges of 133 and come to the conclusion that if I want to use it, I'm gonna have to weigh each charge. On the other hand, 8208 meters about as well as anything I've ever thrown. I guess we'll see how the new stuff meters when its available...
 
I think the same guys that were winning before will win after the introduction of 8208XBR.

"The winner will now be the guy that reads the wind better than anyone else?"

Brian did you think that in the past guys who could read the wind better were loosing??

Reading the wind was just as important yesterday as it will be tomorrow....... unless we start shooting in a wind free environment.
 
Well I am glad that someone has made the comment about VV133 not metering consistently.
I noticed this some time back, and put it down to static in my measure. I could throw seven or eight charges almost identical in weight and then there would be a 'roughy'. We had the same trouble in South Africa with the local powder.

Maybe that is why we are starting to see more and more RCBS Chargemasters in the loading room.
 
Precision benchrest is about eliminating the variables, all variables that can be eliminated. Weighing powder as opposed to volumetric measuring is just eliminating a variable. It will not automatically make you a winner but is sure won't hurt.

As to the new 8208XBR, I shot quite a bit of it in the Spring and it may go through a volumetric measure slightly better than V133 but not enough to make a significant difference. I still shot 70% of the loads by measuring with an RCBS 1500 because I just have more confidence, much more confidence, weighing rather than dumping by volume.

My good macro camera, 5 years old, went Kaput about a month ago but as you can see below there is just not enough grain size/shape difference to justify not weighing.

smc9dg.jpg
 
Something interesting I just noticed looking at the photo above, V133 grains are not all the same length but the 8208XBR are???? This is an 04 lot of V133.
 
Both lots of 133 that I have, show some odd length grains. Its easy to
speculate that this alone calls for weighed charges. For whatever reason
my oehler on 10 foot spacing will not give me ES in the order of 3-5 fps
as others claim regardless if measured or weighed. Surplus 8208 is quite
uniform, but doesn't give those nice ES either. I do weigh everything
in hopes of defining that window so I can stay in it. Discussions here about
temp and humidity and what to do when it changes are fun, but. I don't think
the Master concerns himself directly with that. How many of us have sorted
out on our own, Gun handling, trigger pulling and condition reading, to the point that we can truthfully say its the load. I shoot anytime I can, sometimes, 2-3 times a day and if I'm good at anything, its wearing out barrels. Tony told me once that he watches how his group forms. His
computer tells him where to go without the help of Radio shacks little
pocket wonder. No charts and graphs, he knows when and how to shoot.
while most of us stop with the verticle component in a group, great
shooters can take it a step farther.
 
interesting.........

JerrySharrett said:
Something interesting I just noticed looking at the photo above, V133 grains are not all the same length but the 8208XBR are???? This is an 04 lot of V133.
Click to expand...

Yep................. 133 is typically weird in shapes...:cool:


Still, the new 8208XBR looks alot like 322 in size and apperance.................................. ......... .... .


Wish in that pic was a small pile of Dupont IMR 8208/T32............ Dense small black extremely uniform kernals, extruded single based powder... NOTHING like it...

cale
 
Cal

I have 52 pounds of 18167 8208 and it is black, and very uniform in kernal shape and size.

I think I may start shooting it. That is about 12,000 rounds worth, somewhere between a 3-4 year supply.

Heck, who knows what will be going on in 3-4 years...........jackie
 
Jackie
I think that your lot of 8208 is most surely to slow for the 65 grain bullet in the 6PPC
But it is most surely perfect for the 88 Grain bullet in the 257TED
Ted
 
jackie schmidt said:
I have 52 pounds of 18167 8208 and it is black, and very uniform in kernal shape and size.

I think I may start shooting it. That is about 12,000 rounds worth, somewhere between a 3-4 year supply.

Heck, who knows what will be going on in 3-4 years...........jackie
Click to expand...

E-mail sent Jackie........ Thoughts on the 18167 lot...

cale
 
Jackie

I do not believe poster caroby is correct on the 8208 Lot #167. It is from the slower lot of 8208, but it does shoot a 65 grain bullet in the 6ppc extreamly well. I have shot several slow lots of the 8208 over the years and it has alway worked great for me.

St.Louis NBRSA match 4 relay one at 200 yds for example of the above. Libb/Bishop 66 grain bullets, pulled 8208 Lot #188 at about 28.9 on the Bruno measure,(I shoot a light load), Lapua brass, 262 neck, 268 neck bushing, small mark on bullet. 5 shot group .093.

So I do believe you can shoot your Lot of 8208 with no problem.

Tom
 
Not to worry about 8208/18165 and 18167

Tom Libby said:
Jackie

I do not believe poster caroby is correct on the 8208 Lot #167. It is from the slower lot of 8208, but it does shoot a 65 grain bullet in the 6ppc extreamly well. I have shot several slow lots of the 8208 over the years and it has alway worked great for me.

St.Louis NBRSA match 4 relay one at 200 yds for example of the above. Libb/Bishop 66 grain bullets, pulled 8208 Lot #188 at about 28.9 on the Bruno measure,(I shoot a light load), Lapua brass, 262 neck, 268 neck bushing, small mark on bullet. 5 shot group .093.

So I do believe you can shoot your Lot of 8208 with no problem.

Tom
Click to expand...
Tom's 0.093" at 200 at St. Louis and Johnnie Stewart's 0.047" at 200 at Unaka in July proves that the 1816x lots of 8208 still shoot.

Johnnie's 0.047" was 52 clicks which is about 28.5 on a Jones. As a relative comparison on velocities;
28.4g 8208/18167 is about 3170 fps
28.4g 8208/45710 is about 3240 fps (#45710 is one of the common virgin lots sold)
28.4g 8208/T32 is about 3263 fps
28.4g V133/04 is about 3216 fps

I'm with Tom, 8208/18165 and 18167 are not what I'd consider slow lots. But 8208/NA3187. an obviously slow lot would produce about 3010 fps at 29g.
 
Last edited:
Tom Libby said:
Jackie

I do not believe poster caroby is correct on the 8208 Lot #167. It is from the slower lot of 8208, but it does shoot a 65 grain bullet in the 6ppc extreamly well. I have shot several slow lots of the 8208 over the years and it has alway worked great for me.

St.Louis NBRSA match 4 relay one at 200 yds for example of the above. Libb/Bishop 66 grain bullets, pulled 8208 Lot #188 at about 28.9 on the Bruno measure,(I shoot a light load), Lapua brass, 262 neck, 268 neck bushing, small mark on bullet. 5 shot group .093.

So I do believe you can shoot your Lot of 8208 with no problem.

Tom
Click to expand...

The 18167 lot is a tad faster than lot 18118 from Bartlett, these are two lots of 8208 I have. To compare to current available powder. the 18167 lot is very similar to H - Benchmark but more dense in the case with the same measured load.

The velocities show that the 18167 delivers just a tad less velocity compared to Benchmark when loaded at the same measured load (3160-3210 is where I strive for with 18167). Both are very capable with 62gr bullets up to 68's...

Not sure where I said that ANY lot of 8208 wont work with a 65gr bullet..?
18167 is slower than any lot of V133 I have tried. Certianly slower than 322, just a touch slower than Benchmark. Takes a pretty full case to get > 3200 fps from 65-68gr bullets.

But I believe Jackie will have excellent results with his endevor with 18167 8208, he like you Tom are EXCELLENT shooters...!

Lapua brass, 262 neck, 268 neck bushing, small mark on bullet. 5 shot group .093.

I'm sure Tom means .258 bushing.

cale
 
Sorry Caroby I was looking at the thread above you from hecksf. And yes you are correct on the 258 bushing. Thanks for the correction and also the complement.

Tom:D
 
The reference of the powder being to slow was from the guy hoping to con somebody out of theirs.
 
Tom Libby said:
Sorry Caroby I was looking at the thread above you from hecksf. And yes you are correct on the 258 bushing. Thanks for the correction and also the complement.

Tom:D
Click to expand...

No sweat Tom... I didn't put two and two together.

hoping to con somebody out of theirs
Ted, I've tried that approach...:D

cale
 
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