How to make my rifle track straight?

I see some good answers to the question. My take is working with a savage you are some what limited, trigger pops up first.Jewel tried to make one and the action is too sloppy to get them to work. Draft in both the forearm and the butt make it go up and down, plus the crooked bedding doesn't help.
Now yes you can make one ride the bags and return the box at 1000 yds 90% of the time by bedding straight both horizontal and vertical. Milling any draft out of both ends for the vertical and by adding a plate to bottom of the butt that is adjustable. I can pull it to the rear at 100 and it will stay in 1/4" dot for a 1.5"This lets you see the hit on a clay bird at 600 and 1000 yds with free recoil. This will return to battery 90% 0f the time in the box at 1000 and only very small amounts of adjustment are need then. I have used some different methods of lining the rest and rear bag up and a removable jig was the best.
The accuracy level needed for long range is I would guess a .1 with es. in single digits will be a good place to start, .3 to .4 will get one name above the match director. You had better learn to read the wind when you get one to shoot. Most come in have no clue what it takes to shoot 2 to 3" groups at 1000 yds. you had better have all your ducks in a row........ Jim
 
FBecigneul said:
Other than getting back on target for the next shot, is it that important? The shot is out of the barrel in milli-seconds or micro-seconds. In that time the rifle's travel is negligible. You haven't mentioned if you are shooting free recoil or if you have a firm grip at the time of firing.
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At long range ?? yes, it is you can't see bullet holes. You have to rely on the same conditions to get small groups. What you know about short range does NOT apply to long range with the exception of bench manners. You have to see hits on clay birds or around them. so seeing hits matters and any draft in the stock takes that away unless you hold it then it shoots some where else...... Remember things like a critical eye box on a scope can kill you, more recoil than short range and getting it back on the bird to see the hit is critical and if the ground is wet and id doesn't make much of a splash. Different game ....... it had better track and return to battery like a rail gun..... Jim
 
Just ballpark, a BR rifle has moved backward about 1/8" before the bullet exits. Maybe not negligible if tracking isn't repeatable.
 
I do not see any indication of how you are handling the rifle as you shoot it in your posts. If you are trying to shoot free recoil with that rifle you will continue to have problems because the trigger is not light enough and there is a LOT of barrel in front of your front sand bag. So, how are you handling (or not) the rifle as you shoot it. If you have it in contact with your shoulder to one degree or another and have your trigger hand on the stock, all of this tracking stuff becomes much less of an issue, and excellent groups can be shot that way. For example: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek044.html Many people have the mistaken impression that benchrest is only shot free recoil. That is not the case.
 
mks said:
Just ballpark, a BR rifle has moved backward about 1/8" before the bullet exits. Maybe not negligible if tracking isn't repeatable.
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That is true, but you miss the point.... It continues back on fire recoil now you have to push it back up in time to see the hit. You can not see holes at long range, no going back to the sighter after your sight in period. Doing the record string is all about tracking, return to battery, not having to adjust the aiming point very little if at all....... jim
 
Boyd Allen said:
I do not see any indication of how you are handling the rifle as you shoot it in your posts. If you are trying to shoot free recoil with that rifle you will continue to have problems because the trigger is not light enough and there is a LOT of barrel in front of your front sand bag. So, how are you handling (or not) the rifle as you shoot it. If you have it in contact with your shoulder to one degree or another and have your trigger hand on the stock, all of this tracking stuff becomes much less of an issue, and excellent groups can be shot that way. For example: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek044.html Many people have the mistaken impression that benchrest is only shot free recoil. That is not the case.
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Boyd, It is a other story if you are shooting on pulled targets in stead of clay birds on a bank. yes it works to hold it but it is just an other variable. ...... but it still has to track...... for 10 shots, around here a condition does last that long and you need all the help you can get........ jim
 
Jim, Did he say what kind of shooting he was doing? If he did, I overlooked that detail. In the short range game, Ocock shot himself into the hall of fame with a very soft rear bag, squeezing and holding the rifle. I agree short and long range are very different. Do you shoulder your rifle when competing at long range, or shoot free?
 
Boyd Allen said:
Jim, Did he say what kind of shooting he was doing? If he did, I overlooked that detail. In the short range game, Ocock shot himself into the hall of fame with a very soft rear bag, squeezing and holding the rifle. I agree short and long range are very different. Do you shoulder your rifle when competing at long range, or shoot free?
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Boyd, I would guess middle ranges and with a Savage F class stock they don't fit any bag due to the large taper.
Long range you ride the stitches, you still balance the rifle. The for end stop is the final tune on how it rides the bags. I shoot free recoil, The Hoovers kind of hold the gun. but you need a good trigger and the Savage doesn't have that.
Bag squeezing at long range is doesn't cut it , pretty hard to run them fooling around with that. You want it to come into the box every shot while the condition holds and not to get caught in a condition change. No bullet holes to look at, no going back to the sighter, hope you pick a repeatable condition to shoot in...... you have 10 minutes for 10 shots and no field daisy wheels......... jim
 
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Thanks. Hopefully your rundown and mention of the trigger issue reinforces my earlier post. People often try to employ techniques that their equipment is not suitable for, not the regular competitors, but those who are working up to it. The Savages can do a good job on something like F Class where running is not possible, but for long range benchrest their trigger situation is a definite issue.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Thanks. Hopefully your rundown and mention of the trigger issue reinforces my earlier post. People often try to employ techniques that their equipment is not suitable for, not the regular competitors, but those who are working up to it. The Savages can do a good job on something like F Class where running is not possible, but for long range benchrest their trigger situation is a definite issue.
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Boyd, just for your info. Jewel did try to make a trigger for a Savage but the tolerances were too generous, but I do know where there is one .....LOL....... jim
 
I am a novice benchrest shooter as well just using what I have for now (Ruger Precision Rifle). This rifle has its own struggles for bench shooting but I’m learning the ropes before jumping ahead for equipment and competition (funding limits). Anyway, the thing I found critical for rifle alignment was to have very free sliding bags/rifle. I finally upgraded both front and rear bags to units with super-slick material on the mating areas. This made a very big difference in my rifle alignment during return to “battery”. I’m still working on my un handling skills and repeatability of those. Also need to make sure you have “bedded” in your stock (lift rear stock and pound stock down into rear bag to set a ‘slot’ into the bag and settle the sand) to help with tracking.
I use the Caldwell Fire Control coaxial front rest with Bald Eagle 3”front bag and a Protektor 4” tall rear bag with supper slick material top. The coaxial front rest is working wonderfully at this point in time.
 
Too free isn't good, tighten the ears to get some drag, the rear to shoot long you need the butt on the bottom. If you move it back and forth a couple of times and your dot or cross hair goes down you need to take a little sand out of the ear or add sand to the main bag, it will spread them apart. It takes awhile to get them right....... jim
 
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Just for the OP's info, when using any stock that is legal for NBRSA LV and HV in Registered Competition, it is impossible to move the Rifle back in the bags without having the crosshairs or dot rise on the target.

This does not apply to NBRSA Sporter and Unlimited which have no restrictions on the shape of the stock.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Just for the OP's info, when using any stock that is legal for NBRSA LV and HV in Registered Competition, it is impossible to move the Rifle back in the bags without having the crosshairs or dot rise on the target.

This does not apply to NBRSA Sporter and Unlimited which have no restrictions on the shape of the stock.
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Jackie, it is a long range gun a F class stock with the bottom of the fore end and butt are parallel. ......... BTW you can make a light gun stay on target and stay in the X ring for ten shots ......... jim
 
jim1K said:
Jackie, it is a long range gun a F class stock with the bottom of the fore end and butt are parallel. ......... BTW you can make a light gun stay on target and stay in the X ring for ten shots ......... jim
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Yes. My 284 Light Gun is built on a Shehane Tracker and it stays reasonably close to POA when I move it back.

The problem is the considerable recoil.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Yes. My 284 Light Gun is built on a Shehane Tracker and it stays reasonably close to POA when I move it back.

The problem is the considerable recoil.
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Jackie, you are right about the recoil of the 284, that is why you don't see the in a light gun. The ST 1000 will not do it the way it is made. It has draft on on both ends, but if it is wood you can mill it out and make it work. If it were me I would have used Alex Wheelers new stock with a 284, it would have handled the recoil and torque better......... jim
 
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Dear Sgt., The groups you are getting with your rifle are certainly respectable for your rig. There is a lot of information on bag and rest set up in two books I recommend you consider purchasing. They are Extreme Rifle Accuracy by Mike Ratigan and The Book Of Rifle Accuracy by Tony Boyer. Both are indispensable to someone new to benchrest type shooting. I am pretty sure you can purchase them on the internet. There is a third book The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy by Glen Newick that is older (1989) then the others (2007 and 2010). From your post it is obvious you are observant and analytical in your thought process. These two books will give you the knowledge to apply those gifts. Tim
 
There's no correlation involved as to where the rifle returns and the bullet hole just fired.....generally speaking. If you aimed at the same place every shot and all the bullet holes ain't real close there's something haywire. Doesn't matter so much what you do as long as you do it long enough for the bullet to leave the barrel. There are more rifles that shoot fliers than those that don't.

Wayne Campbell screwed off a barrel and drove it in the ground because it shot a flyer about every target. I pulled it out and cleaned it up because I thought Wayne had made a mistake. Turns out, the barrel simply wouldn't shoot well. The reason I gave it a try was that without the flyer it was an exceptional barrel...one hole with a shot out half an inch. The only good groups it shot was when the flyer occurred on the first shot and held off for the other four.
 
Tim Oltersdorf said:
Dear Sgt., The groups you are getting with your rifle are certainly respectable for your rig. There is a lot of information on bag and rest set up in two books I recommend you consider purchasing. They are Extreme Rifle Accuracy by Mike Ratigan and The Book Of Rifle Accuracy by Tony Boyer. Both are indispensable to someone new to benchrest type shooting. I am pretty sure you can purchase them on the internet. There is a third book The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy by Glen Newick that is older (1989) then the others (2007 and 2010). From your post it is obvious you are observant and analytical in your thought process. These two books will give you the knowledge to apply those gifts. Tim
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Mike and Tony know about zero in shooting long range, I think this is about med and long range not about short range.There is nothing in common about the two except bench manners...... jim
 
You say tomooto, I say tomado

jim1K said:
Mike and Tony know about zero in shooting long range, I think this is about med and long range not about short range.There is nothing in common about the two except bench manners...... jim
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Jim, You are correct that Tony and Mike are short range BR shooters. I assumed the thread was about short range BR due to the group sizes mentioned. I believe you introduced the concept of long range to this thread. I feel there is something that short range BR can contribute to long range mainly in bench manners as you correctly stated but also in die set up reloading precision etc. I still feel that the books I mentioned are important. Is there a publication that deals with long range BR that you can recommend? Tim
 
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