How to get more participation...

As earlier stated, the discipline being shot at Pinnacle Mtn. is also IR 50/50, and the Rugers have always been welcome on the line during the Sporter Class. They fit all of the criteria for being a Sporter Class gun, so would only be disqualified if they don't make weight, had a composite stock, or were sporting too strong a scope, and that would only be done after the match. In fact, one year we even had a 77/22 win our Sporter Class Shooter of the Year catagory. Let me tell you, that was one fine shooting 77/22!

Mistermike, you want to talk about have something distracting going on next to you? Try sitting at a bench to the right of a 10/22! You'll have spent rounds landing in your shoes, going down your pants, and bouncing all over the place on your bench throughout the target. In fact, any of us who have ever been so luck as to have had the pleasure of the experience will usually run around before things get started getting something set up to either catch, or deflect their spent rounds.

If we start letting out-of-Class guns to the line it does two things: it would be allowing a practice session to occur during the match, and, technically, it would open up the door for someone to bring anything from a rail-gun to a pistol to the line, neither of which fit any of the criteria for anything other than the Unlimited Classes.

I understand that several of you will say "so what", and you are entitled to your opinion. But, until something is put in writing specifically addressing Out-Of-Class guns be allowed at the line, there's no way it's going to happen at our club! The only way to keep any type of uniformity across the board so that all shooters will know exactly what to expect when you pull into any range anywhere in the counrty is to follow the Rulebook to the letter. And, without uniformity you have nothing but chaos!

I probably shouldn't respond to things at 3:00 A.M. because I tend to go off half-cocked, but you get my drift on this.
 
Joe H., I have the greatest respect for your efforts to introduce the sport of rimfire shooting to new shooters (I count myself in that group). The Rimfire Central match format has opened an exciting venue and challenge for shooters from around the world.

This is basically an extended version of the USBR format. Joe further devised a wider range of classes at his club to encourage people to shoot what they have.

But the original context of this thread was in reference to the sanctioned matches that have specific classes in structured formats, in particular the 50/50 Sporter class. IR 50/50 is a precisely defined format for 22 rf benchrest competition. RBA follows a similar format.

Mickey, I can't imagine that at the International match in Milan the judges would have allowed a gun that was not in the match category currently under contention to sit at the line and shoot a non-eligible practice target.

Dave V. -- The distraction is not the issue of a louder gun (although I will leave our range when Savage drops by to 250-round function test their latest shotguns). Rather, it is the mindset that I am shooting in a sanctioned IR 50/50 Sporter match, the rules of the match are defined from what bench is assigned, to the specific types of equipment allowed. That is the game of USRA IR50/50.

If the goal of a club is to offer a format that brings as many possible shooters to the club, introduce new shooters to 22 rimfire, and make some money for the club, then give Joe Haller a call. He has developed a format that is truly admired by us all.

Best,
Michael
 
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A bit confused now...

Dave Shattuck says (On other rifles being allowed to shoot) "...so would only be disqualified if they don't make weight, had a composite stock, or were sporting too strong a scope, and that would only be done after the match." Now Dave, I also have typed at 3 in the morning, so if you goofed, I understand. Please correct me if I am wrong. You told me in New Hampshire that I would NOT be allowed to bring my 10.5 pound class rifle to the line for a Sporter class shoot. So, to be really clear, and not need to go out and buy another rifle for Florida, which is it ? I can shoot and DNQ after the match or not be allowed to the line ? Thanks.
 
Just a random thought from someone that does not shoot three gun....it was said that shooting a 10 1/2 pound gun would give someone an advantage...wouldn't starting cold with no feedback on conditions put that person at an extreme disadvantage to someone that had just finished a target in the sporter class? He is being penalized in the LV class because he does not have a sporter to compete on the first card.
 
David,

To clarify my statements. Wether or not to alow a 10 1/2 class gun to "practice" on the line would most likely be at the discression of the individual clubs. The way I read the rules, it is not strictly legal. If any competitor complains, the refs would have to DQ said rifle and have it removed from the line as it surely doesn't meet the sporter requirements. Personally, I don't think an expeienced shooter has too worry about by letting a brand new guy get a little extra practice. That said, if somebody like Bill Myers or Dave Shattuck showed up and wanted to practice I most likely would balk at the idea. Additionally, the idea of this "practice" would not be and open ended option for these new guys.

Don,

The reverse is also true. The guy who shoots the sporter class with the heavy rifle will have the advantage on the 10 1/2 relay. Most matches around here are limited to one relay. The new guy will have his rests and bags pre-positioned and be sighted in on his chosen condition prior to the comence fire command. Everybody else will be adjusting set ups and sighting in a differnt rifle.

Ken
 
You have some New Shooters that do not have a Sporter or 10 1/2 etc lend them yours to shoot! Not enough to go around then have 2 relays. If you still do not have enough add another relay.
And while you are at it let them shoot some of the Ammo your rifle likes!
This is how you can keep them coming back and that is the name of the game!:D
Think of it this way. Even if you have to share a competitive rifle with someone for a whole year then that means you have another shooter for a whole year! Guess what he is going to bring others along during that year.
Ok one more kicker to all this is that when a new shooter starts beating you with your own equipment then maybe you will learn something that will improve your shooting!:rolleyes:
 
Rules don't get there for no reason (typically)

It would seem innocuous that a 10.5# rifle shoot along with the Sporter rifles if the score doesn't count. In fact, the "rule" exists because of an accusation that the 10.5# rifle shot a target other than his own...collusion if you will.
 
What a strange world we live in, I would have never thought of that. If it were proved, I would have just banned both parties for any further matches.
 
What a strange world we live in, I would have never thought of that. If it were proved, I would have just banned both parties for any further matches.

Don,

Couple of dummies are we. Never would have thought of that either!

Ken
 
Hmmmmmmmmm

THAT would be a person desperate to win! Kinda sad.
On the subject of increasing participation........I kinda think the lack of shooters it may be brought on by the high fuel costs.....when you figure the cost of fuel added to the high cost of ammo $6.00-$15.00 per box added to the high cost per target [$5.00] you have around $20.00-$50.00 for fuel, 6 targets at a box per target for ammo and $30.00 just to shoot. So about $100.00 min. to shoot a match.Just too high for a few of us. Wish it was different but that's the way it is.Oil companies are not going to help so the only answer might be to reduce match fees to only a dollar over the ARA fee,forget the lunch [bring your own] and shoot cheaper ammo. But i reckon none of that will happen either.:(
Colt.45
 
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Lack of Shooters is the fault of everyone who shoots at your matches!
Next time you have a match take a poll. Ask everyone if they invited someone to go shooting with them?:confused:
Neighbor across the street who has never seen a rifle - or the paperboy they saw doing his rounds the day before - a friends or neighbor's Wife that is bored (they all are:))
My guess is that if you even get one person to say they really tried I would be suprised.:(
You would be surprised how many times I have seen someone stop by while a match is going on because they were curious and no one really takes an effort to sit them behind their equipment and let them shoot.
Oh yea they will spend a lot of time between shooting explaining how hard it is to shoot the little dot or how much money they have invested.:(
Sit them down for your next target and let them shoot. You might blow your agg for that day but you just might have someone who will come back.;)
Quit wining and Do Something!
 
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Don't know about your range Doug, but up here I have seen several new guys offered equipment to use. Last Wed. at the Camillus informal am league a new female member came by to watch. She was interested in shooting something. Didn't know anything about benchrest. One of the centerfire guys sat her down at his bench and let her shoot a few 6PPC rounds. I gave her my backup Sulh with a spare rest and a box of Midas to shoot the rimfire card. She'll be back this Wed., already asking about rifles, ammo, equipment. Money is a big factor in this game. A lot of shooters just can't afford to shoot. Especially the young shooters. Remember what it was like with a couple kids at home and the mortgage was due Monday? Getting a bunch of young shooters at registered matches probably won't happen. They will take their CZ's an Remingtons to the sillywet matches for a lot less $$.

Ken
 
The only way to get the younger shooters interested is to let them shoot with an established shooter's equipment. As TangoTwo stated it is a money thing. Most of the younger shooters can't afford the toys and accesories of this game. Maybe a mentor program? Get them interested by letting shoot with good equipment. Then maybe they'll be able to buy some used equipment (older stuff we used to use, but have since bought better). That way they (the younger shooters) can work their way up with smaller expenditures of funds. Just some ramblings from an Old Jarhead......
 
Do I practice what I preach you ask?
It is Hard because my closest range is 2 ½ hours away and next is 3 ½ hours.
But when I go I always call a few just in case and when I get to the range any and all is welcome to shoot my equipment and ammo! And yes I have lost placing at a couple of major tournaments because of this and sat out a target or two so someone else could shoot.
Was it worth it – Hell Yes!
If you ever read my “Tale from the Crawfish” you would maybe understand.
 
Ken,

At Pinnacle Mountain anyone under the age of 18 has always been allowed to shoot for free, that is so far as the match fees are concerned. As for everything else, that's up to the individual who's lending them the equipment. I know I have never charged anyone anything when borrowing my equipment, and that includes the ammo they burn up. Plus, in one particular instance, I did this for two years straight, and proceeded to get my butt royal kicked time and time again by the young lady who I was sharing my equipment with. And, believe me, even though she was a friends daughter and not my own, I couldn't have been prouder than to watch this 13 year old show me just exactly what I was doing wrong.

David,

What I said was, and I quote: "They fit all of the criteria for being a Sporter Class gun, so would only be disqualified if they don't make weight, had a composite stock, or were sporting too strong a scope, and that would only be done after the match." You will now have to go to the rulebook and read up on what constitutes a Sporter Class Gun.

IMHO: What you are so disgruntled about is the fact that you brought a non-Sporter Class rifle to the line, which in no sense of the definition could possibly be catagorized as being a Sporter (single-shot Rem 40X w/McMillan Stock & 36X scope) other than for it being of the correct caliber, then were told, after the fact, that that target was being DQ'd, and you would not be allowed to do it again. That's been the policy for longer than I've been shooting IR 50/50 at Pinnacle, and, unless the rules are specifically changed to allow such a thing, will continue to be the policy until long after I'm gone.

Here's one more thing to take into consideration. I know I may be the exception to the rule, but, over my entire time of shooting, bar none, I have always found that I do better on my 13.5# target than on my 10.5# target. Even when shooting ARA or IR Unlimited I have always bettered my scores after the first target is through, whether shooting a total of 3 or 6 targets. In fact, at one IR Unlimited Championship match, I shot a UL-1 target in the low 240's with a low X-count, then turned right around and shot a UL-2 of 250-20X followed by a UL-3 of 249-16X with target #23 being the dropped shot.

Yes, in my opinion, allowing one to shoot a so called "practice" target most definitely does cause an unfair advantage. Plus, when taking everything written above into consideration, then adding to that the fact that at Pinnacle we hold our "Money Shoot" during the 10.5# Class, it just simply is not going to happen that anyone will be allowed to regularly gain that much of an unfair advantage over everyone else.

I promise, I'm now done with this!

Dave Shattuck
 
Being VERY new to the sport, and new to this site, I am curious as to where I can look for the specifications for the various classes of rifles. I have rifles I don't know if I could shoot at all!:confused:
 
At the top of the page is a link to the Benchrest Central Homepage. Follow that link and you will find logo's for all the associations. Each association will have a set of rules on their site. The three main groups are IR 50/50, RBA, and ARA. For sure you can shoot all three in their Unlimited class. ARA is all unlimited.
 
Back to Dave Shattuck, again

Dave Shattuck says -----"What I said was, and I quote: "They fit all of the criteria for being a Sporter Class gun, so would only be disqualified if they don't make weight, had a composite stock, or were sporting too strong a scope, and that would only be done after the match." You will now have to go to the rulebook and read up on what constitutes a Sporter Class Gun. IMHO: What you are so disgruntled about is the fact that you brought a non-Sporter Class rifle to the line" ----- And I still say, Dave, you are inconsistant, or so it seems. If a rifle that weighs too much doesn't fit the criteria for being a Sporter class gun, then it can't come to the line. But you go on to say they would be disqualified after the match and for that to happen, they would have had to shoot the match. I know, it was 3 AM when you typed it. Secondly, I am not, nor ever was, "disgruntled and you are wrong to suggest that. I had shot the 10.5 pound rifle in the Sporter class match and had no idea that I was wrong to do so. I did know my score wouldn't count, but I did not care, just wanted to shoot. Another shooter from much earlier on this forum questioned whether or not he would drive a long way to a shoot for only 2 matches but implied he would for 3 matches. So it occured to me to raise the issue for consideration. You seem to be jumping all over me for doing so, like it is some form of personal affront to you. Too bad. I like you and everyone who has been so patient and kind in my efforts to get into this sport. I can't shoot my 10.5 pound rifle in Sporter, fine. I bought one I can shoot in Sporter. But not everyone can and the discussion is worthwhile. Might I suggest you not try and drive a tack with a sledge hammer.
 
David,

Get your butt back down here and shoot with me. Will probably have to read the wind better. We got one coming up the "Left" coast.

AJ
 
I will be heading South soon...

Hi AJ, I should be there by the end of October. Looking forward to it. I am trying to get a scoped rifle for Florida. Worse come to worse, I will bring one I already own down along with some ammo it likes. Boy, I wish someone would make a good trigger for the Kimber 82G. My best, David
 
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