Bob Kingsbury
New member
It would be fair to say then that Gary Ocock and others have not been
happy with V-Blocks
happy with V-Blocks
Holding the barrel in a rail gun
- Thread starter JerrySharrett
- Start date
Yup, I think the barrels are freefloated.
One of the other primary reasons that I think Gary Sinclair went to this style action/block is that he said that he wanted the capability to be able to install Panda bag gun barrels into the railgun setup, and test their accuracy capability, duplicating the same attachment in both railgun and bag gun...............Don
jackie schmidt
New member
Gary Sinclairs Rail
Gary won the Unlimited 100 at Phoenix, I think, in 2005, with a great agg. Did he have that barrel-action-block combo then???...........jackie
Gary won the Unlimited 100 at Phoenix, I think, in 2005, with a great agg. Did he have that barrel-action-block combo then???...........jackie
For reasons unknown
Some of those "Polar" rigs as you describe had a poa vs. poi departure. The crosshair moves vertically as shots are fired but the barrel keeps shooting where it started. Even that is OK if you don't look! Yes, those things shoot pretty darn good.
Keith Gant had an XP glued in a sleeve, the sleeve glued in a block and the barrel floated. Shot lights out for a long time. The barrel was no harder to change than on a bag rifle.
Some of those "Polar" rigs as you describe had a poa vs. poi departure. The crosshair moves vertically as shots are fired but the barrel keeps shooting where it started. Even that is OK if you don't look! Yes, those things shoot pretty darn good.
Keith Gant had an XP glued in a sleeve, the sleeve glued in a block and the barrel floated. Shot lights out for a long time. The barrel was no harder to change than on a bag rifle.
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Gene DeLoney
New member
Jackie
I am pretty sure Sinclair was using that setup then.
That block is massive with a square portion up front and a cylindrical rear where the action is and if I remember right Don Nielson made the block for him. The whole block is probably at least a foot long. Like Don said the beauty of this is he can use any barrel that will fit the action which I believe is a Nesika.
Gene
I am pretty sure Sinclair was using that setup then.
That block is massive with a square portion up front and a cylindrical rear where the action is and if I remember right Don Nielson made the block for him. The whole block is probably at least a foot long. Like Don said the beauty of this is he can use any barrel that will fit the action which I believe is a Nesika.
Gene
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jackie schmidt
New member
Another Note
The winner of the Unlimited 200 at this years Nationals, Mike Conry, uses just a standard V-Block. .........jackie
The winner of the Unlimited 200 at this years Nationals, Mike Conry, uses just a standard V-Block. .........jackie
Boyd Allen
Active member
This is from an email that I sent shortly after interviewing Gary. You can take a look at his rail among the pictures in my thread (on this board) titled " A few pictures from Visalia".
"Gary's rail features a turned Delrin sleeve between the barrel and barrel block. The barrel is a 1.350 dia., 13 ½ twist Krieger. The chamber (6PPC) has a .262 neck. He shot his own 67 gr boat tail bullets, made using a point die ,that he got about 1 ½ years ago, that was made by Illinois die maker George Ulrich."... " The bullet is a double radius design that with a 9 ogive nearest the shank that changes to a seven ogive near the point. Bullets featuring double radius ogives have become popular within the last few years."..."The action is a BAT SV right bolt, left port, with a right side ejector port, but no ejector. Gary prefers to remove the fired case rather than use an ejector.
For those who are new to Benchrest, Gary is fourth in total Hall of Fame points."
"Gary's rail features a turned Delrin sleeve between the barrel and barrel block. The barrel is a 1.350 dia., 13 ½ twist Krieger. The chamber (6PPC) has a .262 neck. He shot his own 67 gr boat tail bullets, made using a point die ,that he got about 1 ½ years ago, that was made by Illinois die maker George Ulrich."... " The bullet is a double radius design that with a 9 ogive nearest the shank that changes to a seven ogive near the point. Bullets featuring double radius ogives have become popular within the last few years."..."The action is a BAT SV right bolt, left port, with a right side ejector port, but no ejector. Gary prefers to remove the fired case rather than use an ejector.
For those who are new to Benchrest, Gary is fourth in total Hall of Fame points."
Gene DeLoney
New member
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
A question rail guys, why the very long barrels? It looks like the long barrel would be detrimental to peak accuracy. The 1k and 600 yard guys use long barrels to get all the slower powder burned. A 6PPC will burn its powder in about 20".
Bob Kingsbury
New member
Boyd Allen
How do I find "a few pictures from Visalia"
How do I find "a few pictures from Visalia"
Boyd Allen
Active member
Near the bottom of the Competition Benchrest ONLY main page.
jackie schmidt
New member
Shot My Rail Today
I shot my Rail today, working with Barts 65 grn BT on .790 jackets.
It shot about as well as you can make one of these things shoot. We had some great conditions today at Tomball, the Temp was 60 to 70 degrees.
My V-Block with the lapped in barrel is working great. Whilw I was shooting only 5-shot groups, I doubt I ever shot over a .150 out of the six or seven groups I shot. (this was after I had to do some minor tweeking on the load).
I think that properly fit V-Block, (emphasis on "properly fit), might be as good as anything out there. But, I think I will put forth the effort to build a set-up like Gary Sinclair is using. I like the idea of the free floating barrel, unhampered by any problems that might be induced by a barrel block, regardless of which type you would choose to use..........jackie
I shot my Rail today, working with Barts 65 grn BT on .790 jackets.
It shot about as well as you can make one of these things shoot. We had some great conditions today at Tomball, the Temp was 60 to 70 degrees.
My V-Block with the lapped in barrel is working great. Whilw I was shooting only 5-shot groups, I doubt I ever shot over a .150 out of the six or seven groups I shot. (this was after I had to do some minor tweeking on the load).
I think that properly fit V-Block, (emphasis on "properly fit), might be as good as anything out there. But, I think I will put forth the effort to build a set-up like Gary Sinclair is using. I like the idea of the free floating barrel, unhampered by any problems that might be induced by a barrel block, regardless of which type you would choose to use..........jackie
Bob Kingsbury
New member
Jackie
You were of course shooting 07--133
You were of course shooting 07--133
jackie schmidt
New member
Yeh
Got rid of the '07 at The Nationals.
I have been shooting '08, at around 3400 fps, and it shoots pretty darned good. Next week end I am going to try a 8208, (18167), 322 extreme blend.
I am also getting real used to loading with my Denver Instruments Scale. I actually find it easier to use than the smaller electronic offerrings. It zeros quick, and does not drift around. In other words, if you place a case on the scale, zero it, remove the case, and then put it back on, it actually comes back to the same zero. Amazing.
I also have my new Sporter shooting pretty darned good. I like the idea that it shoots the exact same load as my Rail.
We had a great day at the range. Great weather, great conditions, and great friends.........jackie
Got rid of the '07 at The Nationals.
I have been shooting '08, at around 3400 fps, and it shoots pretty darned good. Next week end I am going to try a 8208, (18167), 322 extreme blend.
I am also getting real used to loading with my Denver Instruments Scale. I actually find it easier to use than the smaller electronic offerrings. It zeros quick, and does not drift around. In other words, if you place a case on the scale, zero it, remove the case, and then put it back on, it actually comes back to the same zero. Amazing.
I also have my new Sporter shooting pretty darned good. I like the idea that it shoots the exact same load as my Rail.
We had a great day at the range. Great weather, great conditions, and great friends.........jackie
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Mike Bryant
Active member
Jackie, I've shot a delrin and an acetyl sleeve on my rail gun previously. It seemed to shoot better the tighter that the block was clamped together. My screws are 6 1/4"-28 screws running in stainless bushings. I doubt if there is as much of a problem with deforming the barrel under the sleeve as there would be with larger bolts holding the barrel blocks together.
Presently my rail gun is set up with an aluminum sleeve cerrosafed for about 20 or so inches on a 1.350 barrel. The sleeve is turned to 1.900 to fit in a tight fitting bored hole in a two piece barrel block. I could see where there might be a problem if it was fitting in a hole in the barrel block that measured 1.901 or larger in that there would be contact on the top and bottom of the aluminum sleeve, but maybe not on the sides. If I took and milled a flat at the top and bottom of the barrel block, this would move the points of contact to each side of the milled flat taking away the two points of contact on the top and bottom and moving it to each side of the flats. What would you think? It would be simple to try at any rate. My rail gun shot 7 groups in the .2's at Seymour and one in the .3's at 100 this summer. But, it has to do better than that to be competitive as we found out at St. Louis.
Presently my rail gun is set up with an aluminum sleeve cerrosafed for about 20 or so inches on a 1.350 barrel. The sleeve is turned to 1.900 to fit in a tight fitting bored hole in a two piece barrel block. I could see where there might be a problem if it was fitting in a hole in the barrel block that measured 1.901 or larger in that there would be contact on the top and bottom of the aluminum sleeve, but maybe not on the sides. If I took and milled a flat at the top and bottom of the barrel block, this would move the points of contact to each side of the milled flat taking away the two points of contact on the top and bottom and moving it to each side of the flats. What would you think? It would be simple to try at any rate. My rail gun shot 7 groups in the .2's at Seymour and one in the .3's at 100 this summer. But, it has to do better than that to be competitive as we found out at St. Louis.
jackie schmidt
New member
Mike
I think one reason my Rail always shot so consistant with the barrel epoxied into the thick steel sleeve was it was difficult to distort the barrel with the clamping force of the barrel block.
Mike, as for your idea on relieveing the bottom of a round sleeve, what you would end up with,, more or less, is a v-block. If it has any clearance at all, it will only contact two points.
My lapping of the barrel in a V-Block is the same thing. By lapping it, I actually formed a slight radius, the same diameter as the barrel, in the two contact points.
What you might try is relieving the bottom of your round block with the .001 clearance, and then lapping it in. At least you know it would be making consistant contact..........jackie
I think one reason my Rail always shot so consistant with the barrel epoxied into the thick steel sleeve was it was difficult to distort the barrel with the clamping force of the barrel block.
Mike, as for your idea on relieveing the bottom of a round sleeve, what you would end up with,, more or less, is a v-block. If it has any clearance at all, it will only contact two points.
My lapping of the barrel in a V-Block is the same thing. By lapping it, I actually formed a slight radius, the same diameter as the barrel, in the two contact points.
What you might try is relieving the bottom of your round block with the .001 clearance, and then lapping it in. At least you know it would be making consistant contact..........jackie
Bob Kingsbury
New member
Lapping should allow much lighter tension on the bolts and correct
uneven surfaces. By making spacers to take up the gaps on the sides.
I can still glue a barrel in the block if I find a great one.
uneven surfaces. By making spacers to take up the gaps on the sides.
I can still glue a barrel in the block if I find a great one.
J
jlmurphy
Guest
This is an old thread, but what I have discovered may be of some interest to others using a barrel block. I built a barrel block stock from steel in a standard F Class pattern, I am a machinery fabricator by trade. The barrel block is 4140 Cr steel, welded into the stock, a cap of 316 stainless was used for appearance. Using an old barrel ( until the new one arrived ), the initial groups were great, but after 10 or 12 shots, would open up. I believe the age of the barrel is the primary problem, but I decided to test the stability of the barrel from cold to hot. Clamping the assembled rifle to a surface plate, I poured boiling water through a hose and chamber adapter, collecting it in a pan at the muzzle. I positioned a dial indicator on the muzzle for vertical movement and another for horizontal. From cold to hot, it measured .004" of vertical movement, given a base of 24" from block to muzzle, that is .6" at 100 yds. I assumed the stainless cap was responsible for a differential heat loss, so I made a new Cr cap and machined a greater channel in the stock to accept a copper sleeve, assuming the copper would ensure complete heat transfer to the block and cap. I reassembled the rifle, including thermal grease, and when retested, the movement was the same! After some thought, I guessed the problem was too much heat transfer, so I reassembled the block with carburetor gasket material instead of copper and retested. The vertical movement was less than .0005", which equaled a similar test of a good barrel in a barrel vise. I believe this is why the epoxy sleeved barrel blocks worked well, and why I would be careful of contacting the barrel with any heat sinking material. I plan the use silicone rubber for the sleeve material in the future.