Has the fad run its course ?

Perhaps universally may have been a bit strong, and I was referring only to 100 and 200 yd competitions. However the success of the Palmasano/Pindell cartridge alone since it's inception in '74 speaks for itself.

Ford42
 
Wala!

vicvanb said:
Actually no, it's a scaled down 7X57 Mauser. When the 222 came out in the early 1950s, most of the other varmint cartridges were rimed or semi-rimmed (22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 219 Zipper, 220 Swift). Gun writers looked at the little 222 rimless case and thought it resembled the 30-06 but they didn't do the measurements.
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Vic, You have it very close. If you take the size of a 7X57 and scale it down to 79% you do have something very close to a 222 Remington.

I wonder if the creators at Remington knew that?

Concho Bill
 
Bill Wynne said:
At five seven and stable, I take exception to that statement.

Concho Bill
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That's not possible. Every guy from Texas is at least 6 feet 4. Wait, maybe that's including the hat??

Plus, that hat you're wearing in the picture ain't no Texas hat!
 
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Here's a quote from Mike Walker:

The 222 wasn't designed to achieve accuracy, but instead as a varmint cartridge with mild report and recoil. The other section of R&D in Bridgeport had a round that they were pushing, but it was so damn short it would not work in any rifle I knew of. So, I just took it and made it long enough so it would feed through a magazine and into the chamber. The head size originated by designing a similar-sized one to the .30 Caliber M1 Carbine round. When it worked so damn well, that is when I got "blamed" for the design.

No mention of a 30-06, 7x57, or any other homologue. (That's a real word, look it up):cool:

Ray
 
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An interesting bit of history trivia - in 1952 Aberdeen tested a shortened 222 for possible use in what would someday become the Armalite AR 15. The cartridge was almost identical to the 222 prototype developed by Rem R&D and subsequently lengthened on the advice of Mike Walker. The Aberdeen cartridge was tested in a modified Cal .30 Carbine and was called a 22 Carbine. That cartridge, too, was eventually lengthened to 1.760" and became - wait for it - the 223 Remington. How ironic is that?

Ray
 
Ray,

Thanks for sharing your shells and your knowledge with us. Truth is usually simpler than fiction. There is quite a gap between a Hornet or a Bee and a Swift. It is not unusual that one carterage should look like a pint sized remake of another.

Vic,

I am so Texas that I don't need the hat. I have the boots but the hat makes me look short and it blows off in this West Texas wind.

Conch Bill
 
Hammer1 said:
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Has the PPC fad run its course and is the 222 ready to make its comeback ?
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(From Wikipedia) A fad is any form of behavior that develops among a large population and is collectively followed with enthusiasm for some period, generally as a result of the behavior's being perceived as novel in some way. A fad is said to "catch on" when the number of people adopting it begins to increase rapidly. The behavior will normally fade quickly once the perception of novelty is gone.

Seems like 30+ years is a but long to call the PPC a fad, especially in a sport that really only spans around 70 years.

The more relevant question is will the 30BR ever replace the 6-PPC, as I do not see the 222 ever doing it.
 
Hey German, Got a .3 in group outa my new mod. 70 3006 couple days ago. Was tryin H414 gettin about 2.5 or 3 in. Switched to 4064 like night and day. 54 gr. of imr 4064 and a 150 sst. That was a 3 shot group but its a huntin rifle. I know your an 06 man thought you might like to know. Forgive me for strayin. Doug
 
In 1952, at age 16, I bought my 26" barrel Remington 722 in .222 for $35 through a fellow high school sophomore buddy who had a FFL (can you believe it?). $15 more for a Red Head turret press and $7 more for a Weaver B-6 and I was in the groundhog killing bidness. I still have it. It shot 1/2 moa groups then, and still does.

Frank B.
 
To see if the 6PPC "fad" has run its course, one needs to check the results after the upcoming Super Shoot. If there is a .222 Rem. in the top twenty in either HV or lV, I will be most surprised. Good shooting..James
 
As far as it goes the 22ppc short is probably as good as the 6ppc but the biggest problem is that you cant shoot it in the sporter class. And have to have 2 sets of dies and other things to keep up 2 BR calibers is a lot of work and money.
That is what is usually posted as the biggest reason the 22ppc and probably the 222 dont get a fair shake but your milage and take may vary.
 
Hammer1 said:
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Has the PPC fad run its course and is the 222 ready to make its comeback ?

Have a sleeved 700 ready.

.
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Nope, but the .219 Donaldson Wasp will once again become a force to be reckoned with.

P.S. wanna buy a bridge? It's a big 'un in New York.
 
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I have a single-shot falling block 219 Donaldson Wasp with a 28 inch barrel and set trigger.

Scope is not quite as long as the barrel.

Only takes five dies to form brass.




Have a few 222 Remington Magnums too.

.
 
"I have a single-shot falling block 219 Donaldson Wasp with a 28 inch barrel and set trigger."

Post a pic, tell us about it. What action & scope, etc? This thread is just for shootin' the breeze until it warms up anyway. I have formed the brass & it is a PITA.
 
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Won't be where I can take a picture of it until next week.

Rifle was originally a 6mm Remington caliber Ruger #1 Varminter.

Pac-Nor made the 28-inch barrel.

A gunsmith that Pac-Nor recommended put on the set trigger -- a 2 ounce trigger when set -- and rehung/bedded the forend, which can sometimes be an issue with Ruger #1 rifles.



An interesting thing about the 219 Donaldson Wasp.... It was made in two different lengths (headspaces) by an error of a cartridge drawing draftsman at one of the bullet companies which publishes reloading manuals.

Accidently, the draftsman added the rim thickness once too many times to the cartridge length.

I found this out when my Redding custom-ordered forming and reloading dies would not size my case-formed brass to enter the rifle chamber and have the action block close.

But I had some formed brass from another source which worked fine.

Got Redding, the bullet maker, Pac-Nor, and the reamer manufacturer together and they discovered the error which occurred many years ago.

This cartridge drawing error was passed along through more than a few companies over the years in making chamber reamers and die sets.

Redding provided me a complete new set of case-forming and reloading dies to match my original but short chamber.



Gun shoots great.

.
 
The Donaldson Wasp was also made in two different case lengths. The original was 1.72". This was later increased to 1.75" in order to accomodate a graphite wad without reducing case capacity.

The Wasp started with the 25 Remington case. It was called the 220-25. Then Donaldson turned to the rimmed 219 Zipper case. There are quite a few variations of the Wasp. Here's a few of them.

Ray
29gicmt.jpg
 
When I was a teenager I would spend any free time I had pestering a local gunsmith named Bob Jerrue while he was working in his basement shop. One day he gave in to my pestering him and took me out to shoot a single-shot falling block rifle with a large diameter barrel chambered in the 219 Donaldson Wasp and that was my introduction to precision shooting. That was probably the first time I had ever shot a one hole group much less witness one being shot. When Bob died I waited what I thought was a respectable time frame to approach his widow about purchasing that rifle and found that she had already sold it to a local gun collector for a song. I can still picture Bob leaning over a table cutting out the graphite wads that he loading on top of the powder in the 219 Donaldson Wasp.

Rodney
 
Ray,

Funny coincidence there. I was skipping thru Dunlap's gunsmithing book last night & came across his spec drawing of the benchrest calibre of the day - the Gipson Wasp.

John
 
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