Gun numbers to ponder

no gun free zones !!

Not my point Al. All I mean is just because a school is not gun free in my opinion does not solve anything. I don't think all of a sudden there will be people in schools armed to protect themselves. Or could you help me understand what would making a school a not a gun free zone do to help matters. I hate the fact that I am detestable.
I missed the part about when you were in school. I think that does not apply to the majority of schools today. I am not quite sure of the mindset of a person the would shoot up a school to guess what would be a deterrent. Then with your analogy wouldn't the presence of some security make a difference?
Mr sdean, in my humble opinion, a very effective way to deter or alter the "mindset" of anyone shooting a school or any other scenario up would be to "splatter" their "mindset" all over the wall behind them. problem solved.
 
Do you know the difference between a gun free zone and a not gun free zone? A sign. You need way more help than getting rid of a sign. I see nothing changing concerning school shootings. You are preaching to the choir on this forum.

Exactly. If I'm carrying and it's not obvious to anyone then if I have a legitimate need to go to the school, I'll simply ignore the sign and go about my business.
 
Private sales are a BIG sticking point. It infringes on our sensibilities as responsible gun owners. And is the start of registering and confiscating firearms.

If a firearm is traceable to you, why would you want to sell it to a stranger?

Maybe we should require that all sales go thru a dealer, not because they need the business, but because the onus to vet the buyer falls onto them. They have access to the NICS whereas private citizens don't. Since the 4473 forms aren't supposed to be used for "registration" I see little harm in legitimizing the sale.
 
Kinda of interesting in how some can try to justify making the innocent feel guilty about something they have never done or would not even think about doing. Then they want to punish the entire group for it and well beyond the majority in this country by far. How many more Prison's do they need to build and how many more mouths can they afford to feed before they simply realize law and order is what needs to restored and to quit making excuses for those destroying this countries constitutionals freedoms. The Govt. is not going to protect them, their friends or their family that is their duty when becoming parents and is theirs and theirs alone. If they feel a school is not safe they should not send them there and if something bad happens then they alone are to blame. When my children were in school I was there more times than not and when I was not happy with what was going on I took it directly to the, principal, and then to the superintendent and if no action taken I pulled them and sent them to another. I worked for our largest school district for the last fifteen years and there are more evil things going on there that they go out of their way to hide from the parents and also refuse to address.
 
Exactly. If I'm carrying and it's not obvious to anyone then if I have a legitimate need to go to the school, I'll simply ignore the sign and go about my business.


I THINK what you're saying here is that you disregard law. You carry a firearm in a "Gun Free Zone" justifying your action with "it's just a sign."

Moreover, you feel yourself to be "above the law." Basically, you seem to be bragging that "I'll carry where I like, regardless of law."

If this IS what you're saying then we're polar opposites, you and I. I WILL NEVER support anyone willfully acting outside the law because they know the secret handshake, know the guy who'll turn a blind eye, feel that the law doesn't apply to him/her.......I find this mindset detestable. I fight it every day and will always fight it. I've renounced my membership in more Good Ol' Boy Clubs than most folks will ever be invited to join.

In My Experience the only cultural classes in America where this idea runs rampant is among cops and politicians...... well, public officials of all stripes. I'm known for getting abusive public servants demoted and even fired.

As our forefathers well knew, our Republic will only stand as long as people are moral.
 
I THINK what you're saying here is that you disregard law. You carry a firearm in a "Gun Free Zone" justifying your action with "it's just a sign."

Moreover, you feel yourself to be "above the law." Basically, you seem to be bragging that "I'll carry where I like, regardless of law."

If this IS what you're saying then we're polar opposites, you and I. I WILL NEVER support anyone willfully acting outside the law because they know the secret handshake, know the guy who'll turn a blind eye, feel that the law doesn't apply to him/her.......I find this mindset detestable. I fight it every day and will always fight it. I've renounced my membership in more Good Ol' Boy Clubs than most folks will ever be invited to join.

In My Experience the only cultural classes in America where this idea runs rampant is among cops and politicians...... well, public officials of all stripes. I'm known for getting abusive public servants demoted and even fired.

As our forefathers well knew, our Republic will only stand as long as people are moral.

I don't carry nor do I have any intention of ever doing so. Also I have no reason to ever go to a school or into one during "normal business hours" unless for a grandchild's school function. I'll have to see if the school near me even has such a sign. My point was that IF I chose to ignore the sign it's unlikely anyone would ever know or if I forgot to leave it in my vehicle nobody would ever know.
 
I THINK what you're saying here is that you disregard law. You carry a firearm in a "Gun Free Zone" justifying your action with "it's just a sign."

Moreover, you feel yourself to be "above the law." Basically, you seem to be bragging that "I'll carry where I like, regardless of law."

If this IS what you're saying then we're polar opposites, you and I. I WILL NEVER support anyone willfully acting outside the law because they know the secret handshake, know the guy who'll turn a blind eye, feel that the law doesn't apply to him/her.......I find this mindset detestable. I fight it every day and will always fight it. I've renounced my membership in more Good Ol' Boy Clubs than most folks will ever be invited to join.

In My Experience the only cultural classes in America where this idea runs rampant is among cops and politicians...... well, public officials of all stripes. I'm known for getting abusive public servants demoted and even fired.

As our forefathers well knew, our Republic will only stand as long as people are moral.

So how does Mr. Moral High Ground feel about dealers at shows who display inflammatory literature and bumper stickers? Frankly, I find them despicable and they basically negate any positive effect from the money I donate to the NRA or other groups and I feel dirty even supporting Second Amendment rights for people like that. Do you ever get into their face/s and tell them to stop doing that ?
 
And about 4 million new 16yr-olds are born each day.... That's 4,000,000,000 new slates, NOT IN THE DATABASE.

The above was copied from post #10 and I have now idea what it means. Someone please enlighten me.. Thanks
 
And about 4 million new 16yr-olds are born each day.... That's 4,000,000,000 new slates, NOT IN THE DATABASE.

The above was copied from post #10 and I have now idea what it means. Someone please enlighten me.. Thanks

Sorry, that was me,


First of all, I was wrong, I misspoke. There are 4M births PER YEAR, not per day.

There are 4 million kids born every year in the US, therefore it follows that there are 4M new 16yrolds entering society every year.. And new 18yrolds, or new 21yrolds......whatever age cutoff or age of entry (drinking/military service/buy firearms/ driver licenses issued etc) there will be 4 million brand new, inexperienced faces per year.

NOT per day.
 
Sorry, that was me,


First of all, I was wrong, I misspoke. There are 4M births PER YEAR, not per day.

There are 4 million kids born every year in the US, therefore it follows that there are 4M new 16yrolds entering society every year.. And new 18yrolds, or new 21yrolds......whatever age cutoff or age of entry (drinking/military service/buy firearms/ driver licenses issued etc) there will be 4 million brand new, inexperienced faces per year.

NOT per day.

And as long as they keep their noses clean and stay out of trouble, they'll never make it into the database.
 
So how does Mr. Moral High Ground feel about dealers at shows who display inflammatory literature and bumper stickers? Frankly, I find them despicable and they basically negate any positive effect from the money I donate to the NRA or other groups and I feel dirty even supporting Second Amendment rights for people like that. Do you ever get into their face/s and tell them to stop doing that ?

Is there any other moral ground than the high ground? :)

To me though, there is a difference between what private businesses choose to sell/display, or what people choose to wear/display VS a government mandated policy. If you find a store despicable, or the NRA to be dirty and nasty, DON'T SUPPORT IT! We have "Pink Palaces" and strip joints scattered about. They "display stuff I don't want my kids to see"..... But they're THERE.... All's I need to do is take my kids elsewhere....

I find it reprehensible (but not detestable/despicable :) ) that a person would choose to wear a shirt in public emblazoned with "Fxxx The Pigs" or the like. But I won't confront them on it. But again, this is personal. I also dislike the "F Cancer" shirts with the huge FXXX emblazoned..... but respect the rights and feelings of a person suffering the personal horror of The Big C.

I use words like detestable, despicable, abhorrent with care.......only when I feel innocent people are being hurt do I feel these appellations to be appropriate, in this case children killed, murdered. I stated here and elsewhere back when "Gun Free Zones" were becoming a thing that people would be murdered over this. And they have been.

Mandated, explicitly advertised "Gun Free Zones" are detestable to me. But ignoring them, ignoring mandated law is also not acceptable in my view.

BTW, in no case are these words/phrases meant to be construed as personal affronts or judgments. I find certain LAWS and certain ACTIONS to be detestable. For instance, I find public urination to be detestable....and the laws against it to be perfectly acceptable. I'm not against public decency laws (although these are most commonly ordinances)


I took a stand against the laws in WA State, I had a meeting with state officials here on my property, in my schoolroom that went late into the night concerning the fact that my classroom was now to be "a gun free zone" and that due to another law we would be forced to do background checks on students before we could legally let them use class-supplied firearms under supervision...... One of the functions of my classroom is for Hunter Education. A law was passed in (2014??) by the people of WA (594) that states that we can't even borrow or loan guns without a background check. I live in a WA certified property and we conduct "Range Days" in my yard. I've got the signs out right now..... Through the years we have (legally) used personal firearms, class-purchased firearms, donated firearms and now State Supplied and "registered" firearms for this effort. I stated that I WOULD NOT ignore the new laws, either of them. Myself and the teachers I work with are the only people I've met who agree with this stance. Statewide, the consensus was that making us teachers "exempt" and excluding our situations from the law is/was acceptable. As I said, the Atty General gave us all carte blanche to just "ignore the 594 law." But instead I said "I quit." I will not operate outside the law because some official says I can.

This way lies madness.
 
Sorry, that was me,


First of all, I was wrong, I misspoke. There are 4M births PER YEAR, not per day.

There are 4 million kids born every year in the US, therefore it follows that there are 4M new 16yrolds entering society every year.. And new 18yrolds, or new 21yrolds......whatever age cutoff or age of entry (drinking/military service/buy firearms/ driver licenses issued etc) there will be 4 million brand new, inexperienced faces per year.
NOT per day.

YUes and that could be 5 million/year but 1 million are not allowed to see daylight.

Id have another statement but it usually gets me dinged.. The truth hurts...

PM for additional discussion.
 
As a dealer and as an employer I do lots of "vetting" enough to absolutely KNOW that at least in the three areas of the country I deal, 99.9% of all latinos are illegal....What do I do about it??? We don't hire latinos. Costs me a lot of money and I have to be careful of discrimination suits but it's safer than hiring people with no history.

I live in a country governed by laws which I ABIDE BY..... if I don't like a law, I work to get it changed but in the meantime, it's not "just a sign" it's a Symbol Of Law.

Sign says "don't carry"..... I don't carry. Sign says "No Trapessing"..... I indeed DO NOT TRAPESS!
I WILL NEVER support anyone willfully acting outside the law because they know the secret handshake, know the guy who'll turn a blind eye, feel that the law doesn't apply to him/her.

Al, I enjoy reading your posts and oftentimes am impressed with your arguments; however, I'm puzzled over the above quotes -- is there a contradiction between the first and the second/third quotes, or am I missing something?
 
Just in the news, Saline solutions are the IV of choice for U.S. doctors. They cause tens of thousands of needless deaths from kidney failure and other causes when inexpensive and safe alternatives are available and widely used in other parts of the world.

Where's the outrage?

We are being railroaded by a bunch of deceitful, autocratic fascists.

I just sent another $200 to the NRA.

NRA-ILA hopefully.

They are the lobby arm.

The NRA is a not for profit tax deductible donation but as such they cannot lobby.

The number I like best is NICS checks from 11/1998 to 9/2016.
245,551,186
 
Al, I enjoy reading your posts and oftentimes am impressed with your arguments; however, I'm puzzled over the above quotes -- is there a contradiction between the first and the second/third quotes, or am I missing something?

No.

It costs me money simply because all my competitors use illegals and they're cheaper to hire. Because of this I'm constantly bidding against cheaper competition, as we are primarily a labor provider. If you're thinking of the "discrimination" angle, ........ can't help ya' there ;)

I finished this last sentence 6 times, with 6 different permutations and decided no answer is best.
 
Not that it matters much, but 30,000 divided by 324,059,091 is actually .00009258 not .000000925 two zeros too many. Do the math. :) , but thanks for posting as living in New York City I have more formalized this original post and have been providing printed copies to my not so gun friendly friends and neighbors.
 
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YUes and that could be 5 million/year but 1 million are not allowed to see daylight.

Id have another statement but it usually gets me dinged.. The truth hurts...

PM for additional discussion.

langenc, I agree with you on this sore subject........ I'm guessing most of the people here agree with you......... but the simple fact is, that subject has no bearing on guns and shooting :)
 
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