Gun Laws and Doing Barrel Work.

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
OK, I do barrel work for some friends, mainly because it so darned hard for them to get any thing done in a timely manner. I have the means and the facility, I enjoy doing it.

But, just what are the laws governing this. I am working on a piece for a Firearm. Do you have to have an FFL to perform the machine work involved in barrel istallation.

What about re-tapping a scope mount hole?? Or facing a bolt face?? Or gluing in an action?? Bedding a Stock?? Or truing an action??. Making a trigger hanger?? Or any machine work involving Guns??.

I have looked at all of the laws on the various web sites, it all relates to manufacturing. Where does "manufacturing" begin, and end. I certainly know that I cannot make an action and sell it to someone, because that is the serial numbered base of the firearm.

So, the question is. Does a "hobbyist" have to have a FFL in order to do machine shop work on Firearms, particularilly in the area of installing Barrels??.......jackie
 
Jackie,
If you're doing any work that involves the receiver then you need to have a FFL unless the owner is present at all times while you have the receiver.
 
Jackie,

Lemme know when you run out of barrel work........I have a new barrel that needs get screwed into a Stiller Cobra.........(6 PPC)...and I'm in your neighborhood.

cwood3
 
Jackie

I an no expert, on much of anything, but I think you should be more concerned about possible lawsuits. My wife and daugher are attorneys, defense type ,wife is retired, not ambulance chasers and some of the frivilious suits will amaze you. My thinking is if you do work for a friend and through no falt of what you did, his gun blows up and kills him, you never know what their family will do, even if he was your best friend. Even if they sign a waiver, you could still be sued, but my in house attorney says "he who has paper usually wins", however it could cost you major bucks...
 
Jackie,
It is my understanding that if the rifle owner is present the whole time the receiver is in your posession and you don't charge for the work you do not need a FFL.
The only way to know for sure that you aren't going to get a spanking though is to contact the BATF and get it in writing from them.

If you do contact the BATF I would sure be interested in what they have to say.


James
 
Yes Jackie, you need a license to do that stuff. But, James is right, if the person is there with you, you can do whatever you want.

Then there is the liability issue. Everyone knows people are law-suit crazy. I would think there could be trouble if someone had an accident, given the right person/circumstances.

I'm no expert either, but that is my understanding.
 
Getting Around It

It is the opinion of some that IF you and the gun owner both have current hunting licenses in the same state you can loan each other rifles to hunt with;-)=
 
Don't bet jail time on that idea about "loaning a hunting rifle".
If you hold it overnight you need a FFL.
Thats one reason why the parcel services don't take guns, they would "own it" while waiting for UPS to pick it up and need a FFL.
 
Liability:

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but Waylan made a very good point about liability, and it also applies to reloaded ammo. Selling, giving or trading ammo that you made, to someone else, is leaving you wide open to a lawsuit in the event of an "accident", self-defense shooting, etc. I've also been told that it is a violation of Federal law to sell,trade, or give reloaded ammo that you made, to someone else, unless you have a federally issued manufacturers license. Has anyone else heard of, or know of such a law? This day and age, I guess the key word is "self-preservation".:(
 
Jackie,
I’m sure there are plenty of ATF agents reading your post,, maybe one of them will reply?
I wouldn’t count on anything you read here, contact someone who knows.

If it turns out someone needs a manufacturers license to install a barrel blank for themselves or for a friend at no profit, lathe sales are going to slow down in a hurry. Someone also pointed out the gunsmith FFL is intended for people who intend to start a business with the intent of making a profit.
Hunting license??? Guess we should all stock-up on fur stamps incase we need to borrow a gun to finish the next relay.

Lawyers, I bet you have business insurance that will cover anything that comes out of your lathe. Do you still have all your old cars, what if a break lining fails?



f d shuster said:
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but Waylan made a very good point about liability, and it also applies to reloaded ammo. Selling, giving or trading ammo that you made, to someone else, is leaving you wide open to a lawsuit in the event of an "accident", self-defense shooting, etc. I've also been told that it is a violation of Federal law to sell,trade, or give reloaded ammo that you made, to someone else, unless you have a federally issued manufacturers license. Has anyone else heard of, or know of such a law? This day and age, I guess the key word is "self-preservation".:(
Click to expand...

I’ve never seen that, maybe I didn’t "press 2 for English" and couldn’t understand what they were saying?
Wonder if it’s ok if dad shoots my reloaded ammo?
 
Different Times

The truth be known, there are shooters scattered all over the USA who probably have a lathe and some other equipment, and on occasion perform work for friends. It never dawns on anybody that you might be breaking the law. In fact, in years past, the law might have just looked the other way.

But things are diffErent now. The new Administration just might decide to make an example of all of these "criminals".

The root of most of the problem is there seems to be a pretty big shortage of accuracy minded Gunsmiths. Personally, if I did not do my own work, I probably would not even be involved in Benchrest. The thought of waiting 3months+ for anything seems ridiculous to me, but if there are not enough Gunsmiths to serve a market, then that is what you have. I have never met a Gunsmith who said he was less than two months behind

Add to that just the hassles involved in shipping parts, or even ending up with the correct parts.

This is probably why more and more Benchrest Shooters end up getting their own lathe and other equipment, and become self contained. I just hope we never see the day when the Federal Government says you cannot even work on your own stuff without an FFL.......jackie
 
And how do we get accuracy minded gunsmiths unless they can learn and refine their skills as a hobby or at home before taking the plunge into a profit making business?
The FCC and other fed organizations (electronics) recognize this and have programs like the amateur radio license. Maybe when they regulate or just plain scare everyone into abandoning the firearms industry, they can borrow money from China and bail them out too.
Unfortunately as we’ve seen in the past, the ATF enforces what they believe is the current administrations desires, not necessarily constitutional law.
 
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Job loss

I wonder how many more jobs will be lost if all these new proposed gun and ammo laws take place. Waste no time, contact your representitive in the state and in DC, and let them know how you need them to vote. After all, they work for you. (At least that's what we thought when we elected them)
 
I'm pretty sure you are OK working on your own stuff, it's when you are working on someone else's stuff that you are getting into an area where it could cause you trouble if the ATF takes the notion that they want to screw with you. When the government gets common folks in their sights we are usually doomed as we lack the funds to defend ourselves from them attacking us with our money, they don't have a problem getting more money, we do. If I did any work for others I sure wouldn't want it posted online unless I had the proper licenses and was doing it as a business. Steve
 
Post for Jackie and others..

The following is a BATF public letter dated January 14, 2009. You can't get much hotter of the press.

1. Jackie Gunsmiths have to have a "type 001 deelers license if they keep someone elses' firearm/action without the owner being on the premise. You as an individual may work on someone elses firearm without a license if they remain on the premise. I'll bet your homeowners or business insurance would drop you so fast it would suck you through the floor, if they knew you were working on guns with or without a license or a seperate gunsmiths liability policy. Joseph Chiarello & Co., INC is the only underwriter in the US who writes insurance for Gunsmiths. see www.guninsurance.com Hold on to your wallet you don't want it sucked out of your pocket.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-2.pdf

Rustystud
 
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Talked to a Few Others

After talking to sevral people, I have decided that when it comes to doing any kind of Gun Work for someone other than yourself, you must have an FFL in order to be completely legal.

So, I will have to inform my few friends that I have helped out in the past that I will no longer be able to perform barrel work. It is a simple matter of being 100 percent in complience with the law.

In the future, I might aquire an FFL, but since the only dealings I have with firearms is in the relm of Benchrest, it would serve me little purpose, as I have no desire to perform this type of work outside of what I was doing........jackie
 
Unless I missed something I don’t believe that document answers the question in this thread because a barrel blank is not a drop-in part. A home machinist manufactures a drop-in part from a barrel blank.
 
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