Growing the IBS

Wilbur said:
Guys - forget factory class! They ain't coming.....

All the factory shooters want is a close range where they COULD go compete in the offchance that they didn't have anything else to do. They have no commitment. Try it if you like but it ain't gonna work in terms of new competitors or members. Another reason it won't work is that the only differences in shooting a match and just shooting is the entry fee and they don't get to pick when.

Folks have to see the game as it really is and they can't do that shooting a factory rifle - unless it's one of "THOSE" factory rifles. On the other hand, if you offered to loan them your complete setup and spend (throw away) an expensive weekend showing them the ropes, they might just become interested.

Put together some turnkey "loaner" rigs and run with it. I'll create a place to advertise the availability of such on a match to match basis. Y'all have enough stuff just laying around to have a hundred or more complete rigs for loan. I've got 15 or so Panda barrels somewhere here - full of dirt dauber nests I would guess.

I can't, in good conscience, leave it there as a significant problem exists with the stated "loaner rigs". Coming up with a loaner rig is simple compared to hauling the stuff from match to match. You gotta grit your teeth and say "I'll do it".
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Wilbur,
I can't say as I've ever disagreed with anything you've said on this forum. But in this case I do on a couple of fronts. We've been holding UBR matches for two years now. In that time we've seen quite a few new shooters compete with each other using factory rifles. As far as I can see, they have just as much fun as the custom class. They pay the same entry fee and some come from just as far as those shooting custom rifles. Some have bought custom rifles and others are very happy to continue to compete with what they have for now.
If you want to look and see, check the UBR site and look at the number of competitors in Factory Class.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't much care whether or not these new shooters join either IBS or NBRSA. They are shooting in benchrest matches and that's what I'm looking to accomplish. Also, when they compete on the same relays, shooting the same targets, they have an opportunity to see what custom rifles will do. It creates an interest that just telling someone about doesn't accomplish.

If you are talking about recuiting shooters that will be at the Super Shoot next season, you're probably correct. But if you are looking to add new shooters to the sport, I do disagree with you.

Respectfully,

Rick
 
This is also true in the South area. It seems that the "IBS" is for the North East area and the rest of us can watch if we want. All the big matches are it that area and unless you want to spend a great deal of money and travel you cannot compete with the amount of matches compared to every where else. I see the IBS in this region going down hill due to a loss of interest. We try to get the Nationals here from time to time but politics get the best of it. So every year it goes to the same places.
mike in co said:
the ibs is done..because they are narrow minded.
they had western members but ignored them and thier wishes.
they had western clubs but insulted them and lost them.
ibs needs new management that understands it is not an east coast club......
marketing for new members will not fix any of the above...
fix the problem, not the symptoms

mike in co
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Ron Whats the deal on the nationals/ From what i'm told all you have to do is bid on them.
From what I was told everyone has a chance to get them. Remember the natioals are a 6 day shoot in group with a few more days for the incidentals awards etc. Group might be a tad different. Not sure on long range.
This year group was at Weikert again, The year before it was at Holton .
If your club can handle it and has the facilitys i can't see why you didn't get a chance. The board was almost begging clubs to hold group nats.
 
i m glad you are the voice of all brc members but me...
my club has a waiting list...at least 2 yrs long
we shoot matches month long..nearly everyday of every weekend....
some notes on our matches:
none cost over 20 us dollars to enter.
none require expensive equiptment
members do not have long distance to travel for a match...probably max of 60 miles.
no overnight stays required
no high cost of meals on the road.
and while some think i am the one without money( i am) it has been the CLUB members THAT HAVE ASKED TO HELP REDUCE COSTS.
our annual elections and out monthly board meeting are local member input is not an issue.
we are not looking for ways to expand our membership
our board is responsive and when not in touch with the general membership(it happens) they are replaced...next election or politely asked to step down.
nothing is perfect, but the ibs's refusal to fix thier system,means it is silly to ask how to grow.
as a club i'm not going to reccommend affliation nor our members to become your members because your club and processes are BROKEN.
you need to make it a club someone wants to join..as of today it is not.
mike in co
dmoran65 said:
Actually Mike in CO, I think you live in a different world then most all here on BRC do .........

DM
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ron collins said:
This is also true in the South area. It seems that the "IBS" is for the North East area and the rest of us can watch if we want. All the big matches are it that area and unless you want to spend a great deal of money and travel you cannot compete with the amount of matches compared to every where else. I see the IBS in this region going down hill due to a loss of interest. We try to get the Nationals here from time to time but politics get the best of it. So every year it goes to the same places.
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C'mon guys, be specific Are you talking group, score or LR? In the case of Score here are the locations of Nat's in the past few years 100/200 first, 200/300 listed 2nd: ....'12-MI/MD...'11-ME/KY...'10-MI/MD...'09-IA/MD...'08-OH/ME...'07-NY/MD...'06-GA/PA...'05-PA/MD...'04-NY/PA
.

Michigan, Kentucky, Ohio, Iowa and Georgia are hardly the northeast.
 
did you know the mississippi river was in the united states now ???

LHSmith said:
C'mon guys, be specific Are you talking group, score or LR? In the case of Score here are the locations of Nat's in the past few years 100/200 first, 200/300 listed 2nd: ....'12-MI/MD...'11-ME/KY...'10-MI/MD...'09-IA/MD...'08-OH/ME...'07-NY/MD...'06-GA/PA...'05-PA/MD...'04-NY/PA
.

Michigan, Kentucky, Ohio, Iowa and Georgia are hardly the northeast.
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take a map of the usa...biscet it vertically and horizontally...
only one of those states is out of the north east quadrant....maybe ky also...
but that is still the issue..a north east dominated so called INTERNATIONAL club.

mike in co
LHSmith said:
C'mon guys, be specific Are you talking group, score or LR? In the case of Score here are the locations of Nat's in the past few years 100/200 first, 200/300 listed 2nd: ....'12-MI/MD...'11-ME/KY...'10-MI/MD...'09-IA/MD...'08-OH/ME...'07-NY/MD...'06-GA/PA...'05-PA/MD...'04-NY/PA
.

Michigan, Kentucky, Ohio, Iowa and Georgia are hardly the northeast.
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Lets fast rewind a couple of years for a bit of perspective:

-There's interest by the IBS in attracting new shooters.

-The AR-type guns are promoted by many, including one very vocal supporter on BRC.

-The IBS forms a class for AR-type rifle.

-The AR shooters stay away in droves, including the one that championed for their acceptance. And he runs matches at his local range. :eek:

You can't say the IBS ain't tryin'......

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan (1934-1996)
 
ron collins said:
This is also true in the South area. It seems that the "IBS" is for the North East area and the rest of us can watch if we want. All the big matches are it that area and unless you want to spend a great deal of money and travel you cannot compete with the amount of matches compared to every where else. I see the IBS in this region going down hill due to a loss of interest. We try to get the Nationals here from time to time but politics get the best of it. So every year it goes to the same places.
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Ronnie 9 Ring;
Most every match below Virgina is a 2 yardage agg with a grand. Talk about an advantage??? I have met a bunch of guys from down south who have made it to matches out of their home state and they actually stick around for both aggs rather than quitting. For those that choose to participate, they have made the effort to travel to different regions and shoot among the best. What club do you belong to that wanted to hold a Nationals???
 
Maddog said:
Ronnie 9 Ring;
Most every match below Virgina is a 2 yardage agg with a grand. Talk about an advantage??? I have met a bunch of guys from down south who have made it to matches out of their home state and they actually stick around for both aggs rather than quitting. For those that choose to participate, they have made the effort to travel to different regions and shoot among the best. What club do you belong to that wanted to hold a Nationals???
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David, I don't know that I would call it an advantage since any range that can go out to 200 can hold grand agg matches if they wanted to use backers. Let me repeat that...Backers are not needed unless the match is a grand agg match. Records have a different standard and crossfires must no be an issue unless it's a grand agg.

P.S.--David, this is not a dig at you at all...just another issue that IMO should be addressed by those at the next meeting. You simply opened the door for me to point this out.

The last time this subject came up on here, that I'm aware of, most shooters proclaimed that every shot should count and that backers were absolutely necessary until it was brought up about the non-grand agg matches not having the same requirement. It just seems to me that it should be one way or the other for both.--Mike
 
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Mike in CO -
Sounds like you have the perfect deal going for you right there at your local club, that you are happy and content with !!!!
So why do let the IBS concern you
And why have you let the NBRSA concern you
You got the perfect deal that fits your needs at your local club, why do you continuously scorn & troll the IBS and NBRSA

You don't want to travel.
You don't want expensive equipment (of your opinion)
You don't want growth at your club
You don't want to compete at a National or International level
You state there is no time, desire, or room for sanctioned events at your club
So why bother with the obvious and continuous harassment to those that do, and of the IBS & NBRSA?

Could it be... and is so obvious; an opportunist to controversy and attack, who obviously gets off on it, that thrives to stir the pot!

my club has a waiting list...at least 2 yrs long
we shoot matches month long..nearly everyday of every weekend....
some notes on our matches:
none cost over 20 us dollars to enter.
none require expensive equiptment
members do not have long distance to travel for a match...probably max of 60 miles.
no overnight stays required
no high cost of meals on the road.
and while some think i am the one without money( i am) it has been the CLUB members THAT HAVE ASKED TO HELP REDUCE COSTS.
our annual elections and out monthly board meeting are local member input is not an issue.
we are not looking for ways to expand our membership
our board is responsive and when not in touch with the general membership(it happens) they are replaced...next election or politely asked to step down.
nothing is perfect, but the ibs's refusal to fix thier system,means it is silly to ask how to grow.
as a club i'm not going to reccommend affliation nor our members to become your members because your club and processes are BROKEN.
you need to make it a club someone wants to join..as of today it is not.
Click to expand...
 
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Wate we need is a benchrest school.We had one in Canasota NY 10 years ago.And there was 100 students It cost $100 an 6 of those students are still shooting.Its not the money its that the peaple do not know anything about the IBS.Wate has to be done by all of us get the word out.Tradeshow gunshows and have a school?Lets all get on same page an get this ball rolling THANKYOU.
 
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mwezell said:
David, I don't know that I would call it an advantage since any range that can go out to 200 can hold grand agg matches if they wanted to use backers. Let me repeat that...Backers are not needed unless the match is a grand agg match. Records have a different standard and crossfires must no be an issue unless it's a grand agg.

P.S.--David, this is not a dig at you at all...just another issue that IMO should be addressed by those at the next meeting. You simply opened the door for me to point this out.

The last time this subject came up on here, that I'm aware of, most shooters proclaimed that every shot should count and that backers were absolutely necessary until it was brought up about the non-grand agg matches not having the same requirement. It just seems to me that it should be one way or the other for both.--Mike
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Speaking of backers,

I have participated in a number of calls, as a ref, on Crossfires in matches where backers were present. Only on one occasion was I deinately able to know for sure there was, indeed, a crossfire. The Match Director at that range had purchased an aluminun rod of 6 or 8 feet long and with the target still mounted and the backer still in place, the rod was pushed through the offending bullet hole. There was no doubt that there was, indeed a crossfire AND we could see which bench it came from :). Almost all the other situations I have reffed when the backers were brought in with the target were very difficult to figure out because of the angles involved. If there is much of an angle, the holes won't line up for crap. For this reason I believe it a best practice to have dowels the target crew can use to determine if there is, in fact, a crossfire. Getting the reffs involved with backers with holes that don't line up is an exercise in futility, IMHO.
 
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Growing the ibs/nbrsa

Every year,at least once a year, this subject comes up. I've been around now about 12 years. There are some brilliant ideas about how to grow the sport. I've posted some maybe not so brilliant ideas about the subject myself. Its abundantly obvious that talking about it is not going to work. So lets stop talking and bring a new shooter to the next match you attend. You know who the best candidates are. Beg em,bribe em,make em an offer they can't refuse. Most importantly, Be appreciative of the fact that the people who volunteer to make it possible for you to play are doing their best. Their hands are full. Volunteers cannot be held accountable. The future of this Sport is in your hands. Don't pass on an opportunity to make a worth while contribution. Just my thoughts

Glenn
 
I started one this year . He shot pretty fair for a first match too/ Last year i did get two to at least try.
some do some don't I'm sure the one who started this year will shoot again. Allso in the past few years the scrub league grew. {scrub league the wednesday games. I guess all we can do is try to get people envolved in the game, Ive loaned rifles loaded ammo gave some lessons and promoted the game the best I can. I'll continue to do it too, Thats what I do' What ever it takes.
 
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