i talked to dad today and we decided we would go ahead and get a lathe on order. My dad is a tool maker for GE so he will be a great teacher so i want to get a decent machine. The grizzly gunsmith lathe and the pm 1236 are the two lathes in my price range so i wonder what unit is the better of the two? dad will also study these machines and we will make the choice together. just looking for you fellas opinions on these two units. What one is the better unit. They seem to be about the same to me. The PM has a foot brake and it sounds like it may run a little more quite. The grizzly seems to have decent customer support, so i dont really know myself what one to look at. thanks Lee
grizzly 4003G VS PM 1236??
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
MColeman
Club Coordinator
I bought my second Grizzly before they introduced the gunsmith lathe. I sold my first one to buy their 13x40 toolroom lathe. I can't quote model numbers from memory but the toolroom lathe sold for $6,000 new when I bought it. I think they're up to nearly $8,000 now but I love the foot brake.
Don't know what your budget will allow but I'm a big fan of Grizzly tools.
Don't know what your budget will allow but I'm a big fan of Grizzly tools.
J
JohnsonGunsmith
Guest
Skeet I do not own a Grizzly but have heard good things and feel that The owner is a honest man who loves the shooting industry and does his best to support it. What more could you ask for in the President of a company? Anyway I think you will like the Lathe and there is no substitute for building your own gun and it shooting one hole groups. Good luck and I think you are about to find yet another addiction in this shooting habit we all have. It sure will cut down on the lead time also gives you control of what and how you want your guns done. You will love doing your own work I am sure. Keep us informed and post pictures of your projects.
Customer service is definitely a plus. We are planning a trip to springfield MO to the grizzly store, and we will get to see what all they have to offer. Another question i have is if a belt drive system would be better for cutting and threading chambers as apposed to a gear drive system? Lee
Skeet the Grizzly 4003G is a belt drive, it's set up correctly IMO so that when you crash it it slips the belt instead of wiping out the gears. I'm not sure about the bigger machines but I'm guessing they are too. (I say "when" you crash it because I'm in construction.... Stuff Happens. If you ain't screwing up you ain't trying hard enough.)
The owner, Shiraz Balolia is a shooter. He designed the 4003G and advertised it here on BRC for a special trial price. He, or someone, also posted vids of Gordy Gritters chambering on Grizzly equipment. I bought one of those first ones and have been perfectly happy with it.
I will probably never have anyone do my gunsmithing work again. I'm pleasant to my children now, haven't kicked the dawg for months.... and I owe it all to not having to argue with other people about paying them to do what I want!
And don't worry about the "accuracy" thing..... alla' this talk about 50 Willionths is garbage. A Grizzly is plenty accurate for what we do and besides, you pour concrete, you KNOW how to find center, how to isolate what's real and what's chaff. What's important to ME is vibration control and tracking, I can now play with these effects. I can easily point a barrel where I want it.... I can predict where it will hit at 100yds within a couple inches. Any decent machinist should be able to do the same thing, and it sounds like you've got a good teacher.
Concrete guy???
You'll be a natural. Locating 50 bolt plates in 3 dimensions is just as hard as chambering a barrel.
And running these toy machines doing this sort of work is more ability than science anyways...... kinda' like excavating. How many GOOD excavators need a laser backing up their antique eye level? In our business they say "you gotta' know how to SHOVEL before you can run a backhoe" and that exactly illustrates the situation. If you can grade using an eye level then having Spectra-Physics set your mo'chine for an extra 50K doesn't make you any better Same for concrete. My buddy Big Dave Somero invented the Laser Screed back when I was working for him in NH. It's now sold all over the world, it's redefined "Superflat," they had to redo the 'F' numbers for this BadBoy.... but a couple good men on a handrod can still make flat. (it'll HURT worse!) And you can't pour 50,000 square with 10guys handrodding.... but you can still do good work.
You can do top-notch work on a Grizzly machine. It'll be SLOW, but you can do good work. And I do know topnotch work, I've bought it from 5 of the best gunsmith's in the world.... I have a benchmark. And if you find you don't have the knack, the lathe is still useful around the farm. A fun toy.
al
edit-edit-edit If you can afford a foot brake GET IT! Machinery is dan'rous.
The owner, Shiraz Balolia is a shooter. He designed the 4003G and advertised it here on BRC for a special trial price. He, or someone, also posted vids of Gordy Gritters chambering on Grizzly equipment. I bought one of those first ones and have been perfectly happy with it.
I will probably never have anyone do my gunsmithing work again. I'm pleasant to my children now, haven't kicked the dawg for months.... and I owe it all to not having to argue with other people about paying them to do what I want!
And don't worry about the "accuracy" thing..... alla' this talk about 50 Willionths is garbage. A Grizzly is plenty accurate for what we do and besides, you pour concrete, you KNOW how to find center, how to isolate what's real and what's chaff. What's important to ME is vibration control and tracking, I can now play with these effects. I can easily point a barrel where I want it.... I can predict where it will hit at 100yds within a couple inches. Any decent machinist should be able to do the same thing, and it sounds like you've got a good teacher.
Concrete guy???
You'll be a natural. Locating 50 bolt plates in 3 dimensions is just as hard as chambering a barrel.
And running these toy machines doing this sort of work is more ability than science anyways...... kinda' like excavating. How many GOOD excavators need a laser backing up their antique eye level? In our business they say "you gotta' know how to SHOVEL before you can run a backhoe" and that exactly illustrates the situation. If you can grade using an eye level then having Spectra-Physics set your mo'chine for an extra 50K doesn't make you any better
Same for concrete. My buddy Big Dave Somero invented the Laser Screed back when I was working for him in NH. It's now sold all over the world, it's redefined "Superflat," they had to redo the 'F' numbers for this BadBoy.... but a couple good men on a handrod can still make flat. (it'll HURT worse!) And you can't pour 50,000 square with 10guys handrodding.... but you can still do good work.You can do top-notch work on a Grizzly machine. It'll be SLOW, but you can do good work. And I do know topnotch work, I've bought it from 5 of the best gunsmith's in the world.... I have a benchmark. And if you find you don't have the knack, the lathe is still useful around the farm. A fun toy.
al
edit-edit-edit If you can afford a foot brake GET IT! Machinery is dan'rous.
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I
IndianaJames
Guest
Skeet,
That special was years ago. I've got the G0509G...love it.
Jim
That special was years ago. I've got the G0509G...love it.
Jim
False, it's a gear head.
Most all lathes use belts for the main drive from the motor to the headstock,Gear head is in refference to the how speeds are changed without having to move belts to different sized pulleys to get the desired speed.
No way to run the belts so loose to prevent damage in the event of a crash,I'd suggest work habits that avoid crashes.
Well Vickie, I've crashed mine twice, and it slipped the drive belts.
Sorry I'm not as good as you
al
S
Superman
Guest
Lee,
I bought the Shop Fox version of the G4003G lathe and have been pleased with the purchase. Because I am a commercial customer, the Grizzly would not work for me. They are machines built and marketed to the hobbyist, not the guy that does it for a fee. When you start charging people you become a business, and there is no warranty on Grizzly products when used that way. For the home enthusiast, they feature a 1 yr warranty. The Shop Fox machine carries a 2 year warranty rather you use it for home use or for work. That to me makes it a wiser choice. They only offer the 12x36 Gunsmith lathe that I know of but it is made at the same place with the same tolerances as the Grizzly machine (Shiraz owns an interest in Shop Fox as well). I will eventually upgrade and buy a larger lathe one day but it wont be because this one isn't doing what I ask of it. I just finished a 7WSM for a friend and this is a 5 shot group with it at 100 yards:
I bought the Shop Fox version of the G4003G lathe and have been pleased with the purchase. Because I am a commercial customer, the Grizzly would not work for me. They are machines built and marketed to the hobbyist, not the guy that does it for a fee. When you start charging people you become a business, and there is no warranty on Grizzly products when used that way. For the home enthusiast, they feature a 1 yr warranty. The Shop Fox machine carries a 2 year warranty rather you use it for home use or for work. That to me makes it a wiser choice. They only offer the 12x36 Gunsmith lathe that I know of but it is made at the same place with the same tolerances as the Grizzly machine (Shiraz owns an interest in Shop Fox as well). I will eventually upgrade and buy a larger lathe one day but it wont be because this one isn't doing what I ask of it. I just finished a 7WSM for a friend and this is a 5 shot group with it at 100 yards:
Almost all modern lathes, Grizzlys included, have a sacraficial synthetic gear somewhere on the outboard drive set to prevent excessive crash damage. Get an extra sacraficial gear if you think you will be prone to crash damage...............Ive had a spare for 20 years, never used..............Don
"Almost all modern lathes, Grizzlys included, have a sacraficial synthetic gear somewhere on the outboard drive set to prevent excessive crash damage. Get an extra sacraficial gear if you think you will be prone to crash damage...............Ive had a spare for 20 years, never used..............Don"
The only sacrificial part I've ever seen is Brass shear pins for the lead screw and feed rod.
Lathes with plastic gears.........
The only sacrificial part I've ever seen is Brass shear pins for the lead screw and feed rod.
Lathes with plastic gears.........
S
Shiraz Balolia
Guest
Superman - damn fine group!! A one hole group that most people would love to have on any rifle, let alone a 7WSM.
Just a corrrection to your post - Grizzly machines are warranted for one year, whether used commercially or not. The only thing I suggest to people is to use common sense and buy the appropriate duty machine for how it is going to be used. Numerous larger production smiths use the G0509G, which is built like a tank and accurate to a tenth.
Just a corrrection to your post - Grizzly machines are warranted for one year, whether used commercially or not. The only thing I suggest to people is to use common sense and buy the appropriate duty machine for how it is going to be used. Numerous larger production smiths use the G0509G, which is built like a tank and accurate to a tenth.
S
Superman
Guest
I stand corrected Sir. The information I posted was given to me by an employee of Shop Fox (Woodstock Intl.). Since there is in fact a warranty on the 0509, it might be my next purchase when I upgrade! Offering any discounts? LoL
pbike
New member
Lee,
I bought the Shop Fox version of the G4003G lathe and have been pleased with the purchase. Because I am a commercial customer, the Grizzly would not work for me. They are machines built and marketed to the hobbyist, not the guy that does it for a fee. When you start charging people you become a business, and there is no warranty on Grizzly products when used that way. For the home enthusiast, they feature a 1 yr warranty. The Shop Fox machine carries a 2 year warranty rather you use it for home use or for work. That to me makes it a wiser choice. They only offer the 12x36 Gunsmith lathe that I know of but it is made at the same place with the same tolerances as the Grizzly machine (Shiraz owns an interest in Shop Fox as well). I will eventually upgrade and buy a larger lathe one day but it wont be because this one isn't doing what I ask of it. I just finished a 7WSM for a friend and this is a 5 shot group with it at 100 yards:
Winter must be officially OVER... And Cabin fever is gone until Navember...
Not yet has anyone asked to see the moving backer on that 5 shot group.
Paul
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S
Superman
Guest
Paul, maybe that's because most people, who have scored enough targets in their day, can look at the irregular shape of the group and tell it has 5 shots in it. You wanna bring your checkbook down to Georgia and tug on the BS flag? I've won a couple short range bench rest matches in rimfire and some long range matches in centerfire, so don't think I'm the FNG because I don't post a lot. The customer received the rifle on Wednesday. Picked it up from his FFL who also happens to have a range out back (I also sent him 150 rounds of ammo). There was a group of folks in the gun store at the time and they wanted to see it shoot. His first shot (CB) was a hit at 500 yards, the next 2 impacted just below it 2" apart. He then went to 800 yards and had 3 hits on a 12" plate. His last 3 shots were fired at 1125 yards. His first shot center mass on a man silhouette, and feeling a little cocky, he made the last 2 called head shots. He is an accomplished shooter and will hopefully win his 4th Allegheny Sniper Challenge with that rifle this weekend. Needless to say, his shooting outside the gun store resulted in a few more rifle orders for me.
Bobby Keigans
gunsmith/owner
Freedom Gunworks
Diablo Rifleworks
Bobby Keigans
gunsmith/owner
Freedom Gunworks
Diablo Rifleworks
S
Superman
Guest
Hal,
The rifle is a 7WSM built on a trued Rem 700 action. The bbl is a 24" Broughton 5C 1:9 and the bullets are the new Hornady 162 BTHP match bullets. Brass is prepped Winchester 7WSM. The stock is a JP Chassis. Here's a pic of the rifle with the customers Horus Vision scope attached.
Here's a photo of one of the local police officers I've been training in long range shooting. We did a load development on the rifle and fired a few across the PVM-21 chrono to get an accurate muzzle velocity. Plugged in all the barometrics and rifle/bullet data and went to the 1k range. We fired a few at 800, 900, and 1k getting data for the customer and then I let James (the PO) shoot the rifle. This was his first time shooting beyond 400 yards and using a reticle holding system (Horus) for engaging the target with me calling the holds to him. This is his first 3 shots ever fired at 1k, and with this rifle. He's smiling...
The rifle is a 7WSM built on a trued Rem 700 action. The bbl is a 24" Broughton 5C 1:9 and the bullets are the new Hornady 162 BTHP match bullets. Brass is prepped Winchester 7WSM. The stock is a JP Chassis. Here's a pic of the rifle with the customers Horus Vision scope attached.
Here's a photo of one of the local police officers I've been training in long range shooting. We did a load development on the rifle and fired a few across the PVM-21 chrono to get an accurate muzzle velocity. Plugged in all the barometrics and rifle/bullet data and went to the 1k range. We fired a few at 800, 900, and 1k getting data for the customer and then I let James (the PO) shoot the rifle. This was his first time shooting beyond 400 yards and using a reticle holding system (Horus) for engaging the target with me calling the holds to him. This is his first 3 shots ever fired at 1k, and with this rifle. He's smiling...