Gradual decline in barrel accuracy

[center22]

John,

If you wish, have Dan Killough point me out at the Barn and we'll visit.
I'll be there Fri-Sun messing around and trying to gather data. When are you coming?

Landy

Landy,
I plan to leave Miami around 11:00 PM on Thursday evening and drive straight through. If things go smoothly, I should be at the Barn between noon and 1:00 PM ... will ask Dan to point you out. I'm still attempting to fine tune my rifles, however the weather (windy & rain) hasn't been cooperating. I'll be staying at the Best Western. John Austen

 

[center22]

Hi John......As I have stated, I have had the same problem in a few rifles, and after cleaning with the Iosso, the rifles started shooting again. As long as the barrel is not too worn or has other issues that are affecting accuracy,it works. I have talked to a others back home, and they seen the same results. I am also going to the Barn and I will be more then happy to discuss this with you. I always carry Iosso with me. Doug

Hi Doug, I have the ISSO and a good fiber brush, but haven't been able to use your procedure yet, because I have company down now. Things should ease up starting Sunday. Hope to see you at the Barn and also at Manatee in January shooting a three gun and unlimited IR50 match. Thanks for you help and advice. John

 

[DJB in Wi]

Hi John.....I have tried different types of cleaning with the Iosso. Some brushes like the Proshot nylon brushes are too soft. The nylon Boretech (7MM) brushes are more aggressive. The Iosso blue brushes in a smaller caliber will work also. I go through the breach end with a felt marker mark, marked on the rod to prevent the brush from exiting the crown. I go back and fourth about 5 times per every 3 inches till I get close to the crown, and pull the rod back out the breach end. After being sure all the Iosso is cleaned out of the bore with several wet patches of SC or kroil and, around the breach end, you will like what you see on paper. From what you have described about your accuracy falling off, I really believe the Iosso cleaning will bring it back. The trick is to be sure you use a brush that will do the job. A smaller caliber brush or one that is what I consider too soft makes the job a little less apt to work. There are so many ways to clean, but after a while most shooters will find that the accuracy is falling off and needs to be cleaned with a mild abrasive to bring it back. Looking forward to seeing you again, at the barn. Doug

 

[center22]

Hi John.....I have tried different types of cleaning with the Iosso. Some brushes like the Proshot nylon brushes are too soft. The nylon Boretech (7MM) brushes are more aggressive. The Iosso blue brushes in a smaller caliber will work also. I go through the breach end with a felt marker mark, marked on the rod to prevent the brush from exiting the crown. I go back and fourth about 5 times per every 3 inches till I get close to the crown, and pull the rod back out the breach end. After being sure all the Iosso is cleaned out of the bore with several wet patches of SC or kroil and, around the breach end, you will like what you see on paper. From what you have described about your accuracy falling off, I really believe the Iosso cleaning will bring it back. The trick is to be sure you use a brush that will do the job. A smaller caliber brush or one that is what I consider too soft makes the job a little less apt to work. There are so many ways to clean, but after a while most shooters will find that the accuracy is falling off and needs to be cleaned with a mild abrasive to bring it back. Looking forward to seeing you again, at the barn. Doug

Doug,
I happen to have two of the IOSSO "Eliminator" Bore Brushes in Rifle .22 caliber. They have the hard blue bristles. I will use the procedure, as per your instructions. Thanks again for all the advice you've provided. Look forward to seeing you again at the Barn. John

 

[The Jet]

Thankyou

John Thankyou for that and Doug as well. I will also find some of these brushes and some isso to have in my kit bag. I will clean as per Bobs regime as I have stated you have to choose something and stick to it. But if I have a falling off of performance I will use Dougs suggestion. Seems like this thread has been very productive for John and also for myself and anyone else who will surely read it. This is great stuff to be able to learn from such an experienced group of shooters.
Kind regards Ben

 

[Pete Wass]

Almost anything is better than straight dry patching.....BUT, why do folks not understand the benefit from using solvents specifically designed for .22's ? Most modern rimfire solvents are designed very well for their intended purpose and tend to be citrus based. As stated, there are lots of methods but probably the single most widely used would be Rimfire Blend. I've never had an issue with it, never heard of one.

Tim,

What does the citrus base do that other solvents don't?

Thanks,

Pete

 

[Fred J]

Do we over clean?

When I started back shooting competitively, I asked an Oldtimer how often he cleaned his barrel. His answer, " I listen to the barrel, it will tell me when it's time to clean". After that, I watched how he treated his barrel. I saw him run a patch thru it bore at the beginning of the year and then again at the last shoot of the year. Ed Shilen once told me I was over doing it.

 

[bob finger]

Fred: The trick is to clean the barrel before accuracy falls off. Only you can decide when that is. Clean it before it falls off on the next target you shoot. I agree any more than that is over cleaning. My problem is knowing when accuracy is about to fall off. From the looks of some of my targets I should be cleaning in between rows sometimes. bob

 

[DJB in Wi]

Bob and others...........One thing I have learned is, if you use solvents and a brush, you are taking all the wax out of the barrel. After doing that you have to start all over trying too get the peak accuracy back. I have some rifles that prefer a patch with kroil on it and then 1 dry patch after each target. This will not take the wax out, and these rifles will still continue to shoot we'll. Eventually you will have to use a brush to get the carbon-lead build up out. Other barrels need a brush more often etc. etc.. A barrels personality is like a women's. Don't laugh. You have to learn how to keep them happy, or you will not be happy. Until you learn how to keep your barrel happy, there will always be times when you will be scratching you head wondering why your shots are not going where they are supposed to. To make matters worse, things will change and you have to stay on top of it or pay the price. That can be very hard to do. Bottom line is you have to experiment and find what it takes to keep your rifle happy. I have seen a lot of shooters that feel a good cleaning is all it takes. You have to take each barrel individually and find out exactly what it takes to keep it shooting good. (Some) shooters claim they have a way of cleaning all their rifles the same, and seeing good results. I have shot with some of these shooters, and all the sudden they let their neighbors know that their barrel just fouled out. LOL It just shows that the cleaning procedure needs a little extra attention now and then. There are a zillion ways to clean, and of those, you have to find the one your rifle (barrel) really likes. Only then is it happy, happy, happy. Doug

 

[bob finger]

Doug: We can agree and disagree.

It takes a great deal of effort, time and energy to get all the wax out of a rim fire barrel. I doubt many of us would go through that amount of effort on a regular basis, nor should we. As you said it depends on the barrel make up. With my current cleaning procedure and MI barrels it will come back after about 3-5 fouling shots. I can live with that. Double that number indoors to warm up a cold barrel.

Solvents will help get rid of stuff in the barrel without damage. The wrong solvent will do perhaps serious damage. Dry patches are probably better than the wrong solvent. The last thing I want to run in a barrel is some center fire blend that has Ammonia in it.

And I fully agree with you that each barrel demands its own cleaning routine. The problem is figuring out what that is. As long as my barrel is shooting I stick to what has been working. When that barrel falls off, then it is time to pull out the Iosso and see if I can bring it back.

I have changed my cleaning procedure over time. I used to be one of the "don't use a bronze brush" crowd except on the chamber and leade. And at another time I was a "use a bit of Iosso after every card" proponent. Who knows what I will do next year...bob

 

[DJB in Wi]

Hi Bob.....There are many ways to clean and many of those ways work. A person can't argue with success and I certainly don't want anyone thinking my ways are better then any others. You have lots of great ideas and a great knowledge of the game and I respect that. If it works don't try to fix something that ain't broke. Hope to see you at the Barn. Doug

 

[tim]

Tim,

What does the citrus base do that other solvents don't?

Thanks,

Pete

Centerfire solvents are quite adept at heat related carbon and particularly jacket material.Rimfire blend with the citrus element does real well at removing anything with lube/ wax in a bore, a completely different animal. More and more general purpose cleaners are citrus based, even high end wheel cleaners made in Germany. They do a great job without attacking soft and/or porous metals.
Bottom line it seems to get down to metal with the least amount of effort.

 

[tim]

When I started back shooting competitively, I asked an Oldtimer how often he cleaned his barrel. His answer, " I listen to the barrel, it will tell me when it's time to clean". After that, I watched how he treated his barrel. I saw him run a patch thru it bore at the beginning of the year and then again at the last shoot of the year. Ed Shilen once told me I was over doing it.

That , folks is what is called " bad advice". Always seems to come from an " old timer" .
Best advice I ever heard was from Gene Davis, who built more than a few good guns. He was saying that he wanted his barrel " consistant". He said it was pretty straight forward, "I can repeat clean".
For all the barrel whisperers out there, you better pray it doe sent tell you it's ready to be cleaned in the middle of a State, regional, or national match.

 

[Pete Wass]

Centerfire solvents are quite adept at heat related carbon and particularly jacket material.Rimfire blend with the citrus element does real well at removing anything with lube/ wax in a bore, a completely animal. More and more general purpose cleaners are citrus based, even high end wheel cleaners made in Germany. They do a great job without attacking soft and/or porous metals.
Bottom line it seems to get down to metal with the least amount of effort.

Thanks Tim,

I suspected it cut the wax. Guess I have to re-think my solvents.

Pete

 

[Bill Wynne]

A gradual decline in a new barrels accuracy


Are there any answers to why a new barrels accuracy may slowly deteriorate over a relatively short period of time? John


PS: One smith vaguely mentioned a glazing issue.

Could it be that your tuner or crown are not properly cleaned?

Concho Bill