Good caliber for 600/1000yd BR

Chisolm said:
The 6mmBR Norma is a good cartridge for 600 and 1000 yards but the Dasher and BRX have a slight advantage at 1000 yards but not as much at 600 yards.

The BR does have the advantage of not needing fireforming.

James
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From what I have been able to gather, I may go with the 6mm BR Norma. There may be better chamberings, but I think it makes up for that in some facets like low recoil, alot of reloading data, no fireforming, good brass avail, etc.

Also, there are alot of rifles avail. for it, notably the Savage BR 1/8 twist.

Steve
 
There's an Australian shooter who posts called Jeff (?) I remember doing well with 187 gr BIBs, but I don't know which cartridge he uses. The trend in 30 cal seems to be 210 gr VLDs in the 300 WSM. Does the extra recoil of the heavier Bergers upset the rifle's tracking too much to justify the gain in BC?
 
with a brake and 16.95 lbs of rifle, i see recoil as a non-issue....that is a 208 at 2950....

but i am a novice at 1000

mike in co
 
dk hunt 14 said:
I agree with Donovan. The 6 Dasher and 300 WSM hold about every Record in the country. Including single target and aggregates. This is at every range. They are just very hard to beat on a daily basis. They have been dominant for about three years at least. The 6 BR or Dasher is better for the 600 yard game or in light guns because of recoil. The 6.5-284, the 308 Baer, the 300 Weatherby, and the 300 Winchester have all but disappeared in the 1000 yard benchrest game. Some guys have tried the 7WSM and they shoot good but won't keep up with the Dasher or 300 WSM. in Benchrest. Matt
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Point taken Matt, and they're certainly advisable chamberings for a new shooter, or a new build.

BUT . . . leaving Pennsylvania for the moment, the 10-match score agg (HG) in IBS is still held by a .300 Ackely (I believe lowered again this year by Mike Wilson.

The single 10-shot group in IBS is still held by Joel Pendergraft's .300 Ackley, with the 187 BIBs. Both the 5-shot group and score (IBS) records are held by the .300 Hulk Tom Sarver used. These are just the records I know about, I'm not sure what chambering -- or even caliber -- was used for the others.

The NBRSA single group record (10-shot) is still Dave Tooey's, with his .30 BooBoo & the 187 BIB. Not sure about the other NBRSA records.

Think the 600 yard single target group record is held by a .308 Winchester of all things, and is .404, versus the .699 of the Light Gun.

The "Jeff" in Australia mentioned in this thread is Jeff Rogers, who holds that country's record with a case similar to a .300 Win Mag (made on the 8x68 case like Tooley's BooBoo). Yes, he used the 187 BIB FB bullet, like Tooley & Pendergraft.

What you recommend are very good chamberings, but it's not "every record at every range."
 
Charles i think 3 to 4 records in IBS were just broke in West Virginia. I believe 3 of the heavy gun agg records fell. But i am not sure if they are range records or IBS records. I think one light gun record fell. I believe the heavy gun was a 300 WSM and the light gun was Dasher. Matt
 
Matt, I'd guess the original poster got his answer, yes, the 6mm Norma BR is a good 600 and 1000 yard "caliber" (actually "chambering"). Plus some others, in the Dasher & .300 WSM.

Which leaves us free to talk of other things. As soon as I hit send on the last post, I wanted to add that the BooBoo variants have a capacity of 88 grains water. The .300 WSM is what, 81? So the Boos are almost identical to the older .30-338 and the .308 Norma magnum, smaller than the .300 Win Mag & of course, the larger magnums.

One thing I discovered with the Boo is that while it would take Rel-22 or even Rel-25 and shoot some stunning groups, I got more consistent accuracy with 4831. Pursuing that, the .300 WSM tends to use 4350, right? What Bob Rosen uses in his .300 Ackley, but most others don't.

So while there is no proof, I think what's going on is that a balanced round produces more consistent accuracy, and records fall because when one of those is small, it's spectacular.

Well balanced means, with a .30, bullets between 190 and 210 grain weight. With the 6mms, it seems to be 95 to 110 grains weight. Same with powder, with the 30s, 4350 and 4831 seem to out-perform the others. I'm less sure of 6mms, though I had a 6 Ackley that won either group or score for 18 out of 20 relays over a two year span, shooting 4831. As a wild-ass guess, a bit smaller chambering using 4350 or even 4895 would have done better.

It's nice to have case capacity that forces you to powders that don't use tricks. But there is always Bob Rosen, using 4350 in his .300 Ackley. And from colum B, I have a .338/404 that will shoot with Rel-25. But you know what? It shoots better with 4831 and a lot of space in the case.

I've felt this way for several years now. Right or wrong, using that analysis, we're building a .338 based on the .375 Ruger case, picked because it's size is perfect for 4350 and 4831. The velocity will be whatever it will be, I'm not concerned. I also got interested enough to buy cases for a 7.5x55 Swiss for 600 yards, again because 4350 would be the perfect powder for it.

I don't believe in magic cases. People always mention the 6 PPC for short range. Then the .30 BR proved just as accurate, though not as easy to shoot. And yes, I'm talking group as well as score. Or Michael Turner's .30-30s, and smaller rounds based on shortening up the .30-30 case. It not magical, either.

The beauty of the .300 WSM is you just buy it and shoot it, using powders that don't have to use tricks to get the burn rate slow, where the pressure in the barrel is lower at the muzzle (i.e., when the bullet exists), etc. etc., and there are plenty of well-balanced bullets available to accommodate any barrel preferences.

I don't know the 6mms as well, though I'd think a 6x7 Lapua with a LR primer using 4350 might be just as good as the BR or Dasher.

FWIW
 
All,

Just went and looked at the Virginia match of 27 October. Of four IBS the records I mentioned, at least three still stand -- all single targets: 5 shot group (1.397), which also holds the score record, as it was a 50, and Joel's 3.044 HG group. As to the fourth, I don't know if Mike Wilson's 10-match score agg in HG still stands.

BTW, since 1996 anyway, the LG score has always been held by a .30. The LG group has been held by everything under the sun -- a .224 Middlestead, I think a .30 of some persuasion, then Rich DeSimone's 6.5/284, somewhere in there John Hildreth's .30 BooBoo, I think another .30, then back to Tom Sarver's .30 Hulk (a .30 on a shortened .338 Lapua case).

Oh, and I believe Lee Fischer's 6 match score agg (HG) still stands, 98.8333, shot with a .300 Ackley.

The 600 yard single group shot with the.308 Winchester still stands too, as do the NBRSA and Australian records shot with a .30, as mentioned earlier.

There are a bunch of agg records where I don't know the gun, and they may have fallen.

None of which takes away from the Dasher & .300 WSM. As they gain ever more popularity, they will probably take more records, simply from the number of people using them, just like the .300 Ackley did early on.

But I still don't believe in "magic" chamberings, then or now...
 
jim1K said:
Charles, Light gun 6 match score was and is held by a 6.5x47,not a 30.....jim
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Jim, the only 6 match agg I mentioned was HG. But enough on records, for me anyway. I can pretty much only shoot one club, and I haven't made all 10 matches in a long time. The sports changing, I'm fully aware of that.
 
Charles You said since 1996 the LG. score was held by a 30,no big deal. I guess we will know in Jan. how it shakes out......jim
 
Yup. Single target. Unless I say "agg," I usually mean single target. BTW, somewhere in the sequence of LG (single target) records was Bill Crawford. Can't remember if it was group or score, but it was shot with a .300 Win Mag. One reason I remember was I was there, and another is just before he fired it, he was complaining loud & long that the barrel was shot out; he was going to change it for the next match. Go figure. That "wore out barrel" finished off the year for him shooting real well, then I think Bill quit. He didn't make SOTY, and that was about his only goal left. He had two (single target) records, HG group (.338/378 Wetherby) & whatever LG, and the Virginia club was undergoing a rebuilding period.

Dinosaur here. Of the people I started shooting 1,000 yards with, only a few at Virginia still compete on any sort of regular basis. And some of the Pennsylvania guys, of course. Probably gives me a different perspective; I'm getting use to being the old fogy.
 
Charles, I remember when Williamsport wasn't there just Reade, i guess that would guess i'm a Dinosaur also.......jim
 
Bill Schrader has the NBRSA light gun single target record as well as Heavy Gun Score. Also he has an heavy gun agg record all shot with a 300 Win.

Daryl
 
Daryl,

It is so hard to find the NBRSA 1000 yard records -- do you have a link so we can get them on line?

In passing, Bill, Dave Tooley, Regan Green, Steve Shelp, Scott Fletcher & me shared Dave's reloading tent at the 2005 IBS Nationals. Very nice group of guys.
 
Heck I feel like a newcomer, I didn't start until 1971, wow.
 
No, I started shooting after the founding fathers did all the hard work a few years later, and they were truly a great bunch of people with a lot of dedication to this greatest sport of the shooting world.
 
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