Full length sized brass does not fit

C

CMaier

Guest
ok rifle is a interarms mark x 300 win mag, built about 1977.
appears to be shot very little
cz action
new brass fits
once fired brass will not re chamber
fl sized brass will not fit( die turned to the shell holder)
brass sized in steps till touching shell holder does not fit
brass belt sized and then fl sized does not fit
it appears fl sized brass is 4-5 thou longer than new at the shoulder.
dia at the shoulder is right at .489/490.

this is the only "commercial" win mag i have. the other two custom
300 win mags have no issues with brass.

tried 2 different fl dies..
scratching my head
 
i can measure the difference in shoulder lengths,
but do not have an actual 420 dia tool, so can not
measure actual shoulder "datum" numbers.

force the bolt closed on .002 of tape on go gauge,
would not close on 2 layers(.004), so seems good to me.
 
take one of the fl dies and cut a few thou off...but then the belt
gets in the way..so bore a little too ?
yes ?? no??
want to fix the problem not the symptom
 
Make sure you do not have the die too far down. I have seen this before in some dies where you can actually distort, stretch & swell the belt making it too large for the chamber. The .004-.005 measurement says to me that you are stretching the case. Measure the belt on a once fired case and then on one you resized. If there is any distortion of the belt, length or diameter, adjust the die from a case fired in the rifle to just bump the shoulder, not the belt, .001. Back the die off about 1/4 of a turn and restart from there. Also if you are using an expander type die, make sure the inside of the case neck is well lubed or the case can get stretched from that also.
 
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Did I read you correctly that, once extracted, brass fired once in this chamber will not chamber in it again?

If this is the case, and you have difficulty extracting fired cases, then there's a possibility that you have setback in the lug abutment in the action. I've seen this spoken of in the case of M 98 actions that were case hardened rather than fully hardened & subject to long use or high pressure loads, but usually they were military actions.

Otherwise, I don't have a clue.
 
i do not use pull thru buttons so no stretch there.
i have a belt area sizing die and used it first before fl sizing
in the first case.
 
Are you pushing the face of the belt back with the belt die? That is what can cause the belt diameter, especially at the top of the belt to swell and not fit the c'bore of the chamber. Check it. It should only size the diameter of the belt, not set it back. I'd go with the full length die only and set it up to just touch the shoulder.
 
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ok, a fired case,the base just above the belt is
about 7-8 thou bigger than an unfired case.
if can be forced back into the chamber with a
hard closing bolt.
i will play with dies some more.
 
using a belt sizing collet die, the case grows .003 at the shoulder.
the base goes from .515 to .510, new unfired is about .507 .
i can force the bolt close, but it ain't normal at all.
 
sooooo
i backed of the belt die to get a .511 dia, my print says .512.
length stayed good.
still very tight to chamber.
went to the redding body die, backed it off 1 1/2 turns from top
of the ram. case grew .004, and i doubt i touched the shoulder.
 
Now keep moving the die down and sizing the same case until you get it to bump the shoulder back to your fire form length and see if it fits.
 
so i got to a point that the case seems to be 1-2 thou long
and am at the ram with the die.
hmmmmm
put a .002 feeler gauge under the case, in the shell
holder and guess what...very close to fitting, snug bolt
closure.
.004 feeler gauge under the case and bingo a reasonable
bolt closure.
what a dance to get to "sized" brass.
now to see if i can get 4-5 off the shell holder squarely.

thanks guys
 
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Just in case you didn't see the instructions for a collet resizing die...here they are.


Operating Instructions

1.This collet die is universal and it works on all belted magnum cartridges (except 224, 240, 378 and 460 Weatherby). There are no extra collets required. Before each use, be sure that the die and collet are absolutely clean - especially the slots on the collet.


2.Always use a good high-pressure lubricant on the outside of the collet, and on your shell casing. We strongly recommend using "Imperial Sizing Die Wax" for best results. It is easy to use, it's not sticky and it is very popular with reloaders - because it works. Don't use any type of liquid lube.


3.This collet die should only be used on cartridge cases that have already been resized with a full length (or) neck sizing die. Always headspace on the shoulder, not on the belt. We have had belted magnum cases last more than 20 firings with maximum loads. However, always examine the inside of your cases for signs of brass stretching just above the belt.


4.The "top" of this die serves as a case width gauge that will identify your oversize cases. The cases that don't fit inside should be resized with the collet die. This avoids overworking the brass and insures a perfect fit in your chamber.


5.Cases that are fired repeatedly without ever using the collet resizing die could swell beyond recovery. Always check fired cases to see if they will drop freely into the top of the die. Remember that the size of different rifle chambers can vary considerably.


6.Note that the collet is slightly tapered. The small end is identified by a 45 degree cut on that end. Slide the collet over the case and be sure that it contacts the belt. The small end of the collet must face the mouth of the case.


7.Remove the locking collar and insert the die (from the bottom) into your press as far as it will go. Adjust the die all the way into the press, as far as it will go. Then replace the locking collar on top of the die. The ram of your press (with shell holder inserted) should have a small clearance under the die - if possible. This setting will allow you to resize the expansion ring on your case (just above the belt) to .510" or as needed.


8.If resizing seems to require too much pressure, withdraw the case, rotate it, and press it into the die again. Be sure the collet stays seated against the belt. The collet can easily be separated from the case by inverting it, holding it against the shell holder and carefully use your press to push the case out of your collet and into the die.


9.If you have any questions about the proper use of your belted magnum collet resizing die, contact Larry Willis at Innovative Technologies at it@mpinet.net (or) call at 407-695-2685.




The biggest handloading problem with belted magnums is now easily solved. Those new, short, fat, unbelted, magnum "barrel burners" will stand a little shorter now! I'm planning to do a lot more shooting with some of the proven belted magnum calibers in the future. These calibers provide awesome performance and they reach out to longer range with much more authority behind the bullet. The load that I described earlier is safe in my particular rifle. Be sure to watch for pressure signs when handloading for something that is a little unusual, especially if your loading manual doesn't cover it. By the way ... if you decide to try hunting with ammo like the load that I've described, you're probably going to like it. You will also have to handload it yourself because there's nothing available like it "off the shelf".

Good luck!!
 
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Grind .004" off the top of the shell holder?
"now to see if i can get 4-5 off the shell holder squarely."

but i did start hitting the belt with the die
on some cases.
may have to talk to redding about this.

really need the correct tool to measure
datum length of the cases.
 
the brass is sometimes hitting the top of the belt cutout
in the die.
this at a point where the shoulder is set back and fits the chamber.
they have been known to make adjustments to dies to make them work with
your rifle.( it is a redding body die)
so while cutting back the top of the shell holder will set the shoulder back,
some of the belts are hitting the die.
we are talking small numbers.
1-2 thou.
suggestions ??
Why?

What does "redding" have to do with it?
 
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