Does FL sizing make the outside of you case concentric? If so, this means that the inside of the neck may not be concentric due to thickness differences around the circumference. So, if you neck turn to get rid of these differences, is the outside of your neck now non-concentric such that you would now need to FL size again to make outside and inside concentric?
Full Length Re-sizing Questions
- Thread starter yountg
- Start date
Are you asking if you should size, turn then resize? And overall, what are you going for? (in terms of shot group size, how consistently it shoots that group size, and at what range) What brass are you using?
I ask because if you're happy with groups in say the threes or fours at 200 and under, dont worry about neck turning if you're using alpha or lapua, most of the time it wont matter on a high end barrel/properly set up rifle.
If you have the money, guys are starting to use the idod, which does both id & od, and once done, that's it, nothing else matters- you just size and go just like normal, every reloading.
If you want a quick answer to your question, it doesn't matter, because it wont change the process anyhow whether you've neck turned or not. Turned or not you still must 1. anneal, 2, size/deprime 3. prime or mandrel the neck if you dont during sizing, then pour powder so, either way youre doing that process regardless. Though if you're just starting out, Id size em all then turn em all, then throw em all back in the box and begin like normal, anneal, size/deprime etc etc.
I ask because if you're happy with groups in say the threes or fours at 200 and under, dont worry about neck turning if you're using alpha or lapua, most of the time it wont matter on a high end barrel/properly set up rifle.
If you have the money, guys are starting to use the idod, which does both id & od, and once done, that's it, nothing else matters- you just size and go just like normal, every reloading.
If you want a quick answer to your question, it doesn't matter, because it wont change the process anyhow whether you've neck turned or not. Turned or not you still must 1. anneal, 2, size/deprime 3. prime or mandrel the neck if you dont during sizing, then pour powder so, either way youre doing that process regardless. Though if you're just starting out, Id size em all then turn em all, then throw em all back in the box and begin like normal, anneal, size/deprime etc etc.
Centerfire
Member
Is your FL sizing die a one piece die or does it have removable neck sizing inserts to match the OD material removed from the case?
antelopedundee
internet bum
Once you size the case then you have to expand it again with a mandrel which moves or should move the non-concentricity back to the outside where it is removed with the trimmer leaving you a case with concentricity on both the inside and outside. Or you could replace the mandrel with an inside neck reamer and uniform them that way. Never having done that I would surmise that if you wanted a specific wall thickness you might have to have someone make you a specific sized inside neck reamer.
Almost all of my dies are one piece standard dies from Redding...generally I am interested in neck turning just to true-up the case and make the most consistent cases that I can. I did just buy a "tight neck" 222 Rem which I understand is a whole different set of issues. My question is really just regarding "good" factory rifles and neck turning.
Waste of time and money. I did both Savage and Rem. rifles. Accuracy did not improve. Then I saw a custom rifle 6PPC. Factory rifles were only shot in Factory class competition. Another excuse to be on the range.
What cases? Shooting at what range with what expectations? I primarily shoot 100 yds with groups in the twos, with factory forster sizing and le wilson seating dies with factory alpha or lapua brass. It all depends on what your expectations are whether it's a waste of time or not.
On factory rifles, neck turning may or may not show improvements....depends on the individual chamber. At most with a factory chamber, a light clean up cut that catches 50 to 75% of the neck is all I ever do.
Remember that all neck turning does is to minimize the wall thickness variation of the neck for better bullet alignment. If you check case necks with a concentricity gauge and use cases with no more than .001 runout, this will likely be better time spent than turning necks (for a factory chamber).
Good shootin'
-Al
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I am assuming that you mean the tight neck is a waste of time. I did hear that the bench rest folks stopped doing it and went to "no-size" chambers. I did not buy the rifle because it had a tight neck...it just came that way and I figured I'd go ahead and try it. If I don't like it, I will have the neck returned to SAAMI minimum.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Not sure what "no size" means but the days of only neck sizing are long gone in the br world. Virtually everyone full length sizes and most use a bushing die that also sizes the body.
Any cases that do not measure "good" neck thickness (not sure what "good" is, but the cases that I have vary about 2 mils around the neck). I just shoot 100 and 200 yards mostly. One gun shoots about 1/3" five shot groups at 200 (204 Ruger) and the other shoots about 1/3" at 100 yards (30-06).
shootsteady
Member
I've been told by some to make too many multiple passes over Mandrels to uniform necks. I used mandrels to experience no difference using a Lee neck collet die and a few passes cammed over after annealing. Since this site is a "benchrest" site, I'm sure the feed back about necks and custom chambers/custom dies will coincide. If you don't have a custom chamber a custom die made a few fired formed cases to Whidden or someone else would be beneficial.
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shootsteady
Member
Neck tension and bullet seating make a huge difference with my .30-06. I also bedded the action too. Rest and shooter is part of the equation, but the first two are where I would work on. Anneal, Redding body die(bumping shoulders checking from a fireformed case with a stripped bolt) /Lee collet die with a .001 neck tension mandrel, and a benchrest comp seater, Redding isn't bad on price, bite the bullet and get a set, I should have. I use a Standard Redding seater, with thier VLD micrometer add on stem. The stem fit a couple of VLD bullets I have. I load SST's with a Bonanza seater and thier VLD stem I had to fit my SST to.
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To be honest, I am only neck turning now because I bought a 222 rem that has a "tight-neck" which necessitates turning the case neck smaller.
shootsteady
Member
I doubt you have a tight neck in your chamber, but hey what do I know ? How do you know for sure it's tight ? I am assuming the rifle is a 722. In that case 99.9% it doesn't have a tight neck. You have no soot on the necks after firing ?
It is a Sako Riihimaki that was re-barreled. It has "244 NK" stamped on the new barrel. If you measure a factory loaded 222, it will generally not fit in .244".
shootsteady
Member
ok... so.. in that case I just measured a fired .223 case and the neck OD is .255. That's quite a bit to turn. Don't rememeber what the OD is after sizing, but Look into a bushing to size what you need after uniforming the necks ? Maybe someone else can chime in with more experience.
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I read that you want at least .002 clearance between your rifle's neck and the loaded round's neck. .244-.002 gives me .242. A 222 Rem bullet measures .224. Therefore, 2 times the neck thickness should be .242-.224=.018 which will give a neck thickness of .009. My full length sized cases measure about .011 of neck thickness. Therefore, I am turning about .002 off of them, which isn't too bad.