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robierto

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Hi all. My name is Rob. I am new to the forum and have been searching for a while online for a rifle that will double as a nice target rifle and light-heavy game as well.

I will break this down so my expectancies will not be mistaken. I may be flipping coins in a wishing well on this but here goes:

I'm looking for a round heavier than a .22LR. The gun must have a decently low recoil for comfort sake and still be able to take a small south louisiana deer occasionally.

I have a .22lr marlin M60 that I've been toying with for the past few years that I only wish could hold less drop and have more knock down :)

I have a 7mm mag in 700 series that I really enjoy other than the hellacious kick. It is rather accurate to say the least. I only cannot for the life of my take out the turkey vultures on my land with it one for cost and two for the kick without the reward (meat LOL)

The .22lr just isn't set up to take these birds on much less an occasional coyote or boar. unless optimum shot placement would be acheived.

I'm looking into a 22-250, 204, I haven't really looked at much more than these as they seem to be in the realm of what I'm looking for. I guess basically I'm looking at something I can take along with my uncles long range target shooting and still take down a deer occasionally.


I'm loving the .243 for the trajectory, and the .204 for the friendly kick, and the 22-250 looks in the middle as far as ballistics go?Finally which gun can be outfitted with an aftermarket barrel, modified action, muzzle suppressor etc. A sniper like gun I guess. Any personal experience from this is desired!

I am aware of the barrel wear and trajectories of many rounds close to this I mainly am interested in any real experience reguarding all-around round!

I will end saying that I'm glad to learn from this forum and thanks for reading. I know I have a good bit to catch up on. Any help is tremendously appreciated,
Rob
 
Hi Rob and welcome to the forum.

What distance is your Uncle's long range target shooting?
 
sounds like you need a savage, easy to find 'Bolt on" parts ,,,,,,,,,,opinons are like feet, we all got'm and all except mine stink,,,,,,,, but i'd go 223 if you like to shoot alot(it's cheap, easy to find brass etc),,, the 22-250 is better (ie flater) at long range ,,,, BUT,,,,,,,cost a little more to shoot,,,,,, I have both and love'm,,,,,,, both do a great job on georgia whitetail,,,,,, 55 gr sierra gameking # 1365 @ 3,200 ft/sec in 223 and same bullet @ 3,650 in the 22-250 when ya clean'm on the inside they look like you used a 300WM,,,,,

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
 
6BR, 8"twist will give you EVERYTHING you desire.

If the recoil is too much then drop to 22BR 14"twist.

I can't think of anything else even in the ballpark.

al
 
Might want to tread easy on discussing shooting protected species on line. I'm not sayin....I'm just sayin.
 
robierto said:
...I mainly am interested in any real experience reguarding all-around round!
Click to expand...

There likely is no such thing as an "all around" round and besides, why limit yourelf to only one? Part of the fun of this game is messing around with a bunch of different rifles and calibers. After doing that for several years you can truly decide which ones are best suited for your uses.

At the light end, I've come to really like the 22 Winchester rimfire magnum. It's great on animals up to 25-30 pounds out to 125 yards.

The good old 222 Remington is hard to beat for accuracy and low recoil--great for varmints out to 250 yards.

The 22-250 and 220 Swift are a big step up in noise level but will reach out to 400+ yards. Where they are legal, with good bullets they will kill deer at moderate ranges.

The 6mm Remington with bullets of 75-100 grains is pretty versatile for varmints and deer, but maybe has too much noise in settled country.

The old 257 Roberts is a great cartridge even if it's not very popular any more. If I HAD to be limited to one rifle for varmints, deer and targets, it would be a 257 Roberts.

Be careful about shooting those vultures--it's a federal offense.
 
What Vic said, but the .250-3000 Savage is even better than the Roberts in a good bolt action. Remington made the 700 Classic in .250 a while back, and I think that Ruger made the 77 in .250 for a short while but maybe not.

My 700 Classic in .250 will produce velocities approaching those of the book loads shown for the .257, 3000 fps with 100 gr bullets for example, and shoots close enough to MOA with hunting bullets that nothing that's going to be shot will notice.
 
I will probably be asked to turn in my IBS card for saying this but after reading your post again, why don't you just get a flat top AR-15 with heavy barrel. The .223 is a great choice, I doubt there is any other gun with as many aftermarket parts, they are easy to work on and do a barrel change, it is easy to find a suppressor, and if you are hunting and target shooting with friends (not benchrest competition) they can be fairly accurate if you buy the right one. Hard to argue it is not a versatile gun.

I have a M96D Gemtech can that fits on three of my AR's and it has held up nicely and brings the noise level down to a comfortable level without ear plugs.

Let the flaming begin!:eek:
 
Sniper like rifle

I would suggest a Savage Model 12 in 243 winchester. If you decide you want a different caliber they are easy to rebarrel and when that time comes its not hard to find someone to trade you barrels. If shooting buzzards were legal I would load the 243 with some 55g ballistic tips and watch the feathers fly.
 
I personally prefer the Reminton..........

6MM Reminton, or the same using a Winchester receiver. I find it is more flexible to load for than a .243. And for an all-around go-to cartridge, The 85BTHP Sierra will allow you to do EVErything you want. Or, you could go to the 6BR, if your ranges on deer aren't too long, but I don't have any real experience there. I found an old 40XB at 600yds did very well, surprised me, but I'd prefer the 9" twist.
 
Appreciate all the comments guys...

Big thanks to you guys for the warm welcome.

1~they shoot anywhere from 100-400yds depending on which gun that they are shooting.

2~ Its seems you hit the nail on the head! .223 $/ 22-250 trajectoy. I'm definately in all of the rounds listed and I'm going semi-back to do some research on the loads everyone recommended. Added comment to #6

3~ I appreciate it. I will have to ask for some leanancy for not knowing barrel twist terminology? I will take a stab instead of seaching online before answering because I value your opinions. (twists per inch, cent., foot of barrel length?)

4~ Thanks alot man, I don't know the appropriate term for the fowl, but they are a nuisance game here. I'll look into it though thanks again.

5~ thanks for the feedback, I see the advantages of each cal. and I will determing the pro's of said calibers and try my damndest to pick the best overall one. Can you tell me what the mentioned cal's kick comparable to.

6~ Its seems the savage is the best out of the box quality firearm for the pesos. I am stuck on about 3-4 brands and they are in my top 2.

7~T. I was watching I believe guns and ammo on the sat. the other night and I was watching the ar rifles and was amazed of the light recoil, but I didn't catch on to what cal. they were using. I would really be interested, hell I even went to an ar forum a few weeks ago to find something like my horribly long post describes ( I know, kinda all over the place LOL).
Only to find not alot other than worshiping the .308 and accessories. How does this cal. kick? I've read the armed forces legitamacy of the round and out to 1,000yds it's a nice round I just think some thing lighter, like you mentioned will suffice.

8~ lovin the 22-250 top two of the cal.'s I think, still green when it comes to twists though :(

9~I so agree, I love the .243 for it's superman qualities (nice trajectory, energy out there..., and velocity) drop is a hair more than the 22-250, I will try to shoot my cousin's this week I believe wednesday and I'll post up what I thought.

10~BR is this an abrev. for some ballistics or browning, sorry for the ignorance. But I would like this thread to be knowledgable for me and hell, if someone comes behind me and picks up some knowledge that's nice too. I will look up some all-aroundability on some ballistics graphs on a program I have. Thanks man.


Guys MAJOR kudos. I'm off to do some research for all this input, then it's off to google some better gun vises and a sturdy bench to zero in my cousins .243 wednesday ( any suggestions???). The dog kennel and lawn chair isn't cutting it anymore for the .22lr but it's shooting very impressively.

Your comments are appreciated,
Rob

(if it flies it dies, lol)
JUST PICKING,


no really....:D
 
A light .308 kicks about like your 7MM Mag, maybe a little less.

All the others in .22 and 6MM kick less than, or up to the .243 Win.

Barrel twist is in rotations per foot. Different bullet weights require different twist rates as shown here http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

BR is abbreviation for Bench Rest, indicates superior accuracy. "Bench Rest" is a broad designation for a class of shooting sports which allow resting the rifle.

All things considered and without boring you with a years worth of details I'll suggest .243 or 6MM Rem chambering if you're buying a stock rifle and Savage as the choice of rifle.

If custom I still recommend the 6BR 8" twist (unless you don't reload, it's reload only)

Regarding the statement about the .243 "dropping more" than the .22-250, this is a misconception. The .243 will do everything better than the 22-250 but it will kick a little harder. Comparing .243 VS 22-250 is like 12Ga VS 16Ga shotguns....the 12Ga is just better, but it kicks harder.

hth

al
 
alinwa said:
Barrel twist is in rotations per foot. Different bullet weights require different twist rates as shown here http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html


al
Click to expand...

How twist is measured:

Al, I want to apologize before I try to correct your statement. I know that you know better and simply misspoke. I believe this is the way that Shilen uses numbers to describe twist rate.

By way of explanation, the numbers in the "Twist" column indicate how far the bullet must travel through the bore to make one full revolution. This is determined by the rate of rotation of the rifling. For example, a 9"-twist barrel spins the bullet one full turn when it passes 9 inches through the bore. In a 16"-twist barrel, the bullet makes one revolution in 16 inches. So at the same bullet velocity, the 9" twist is faster (spins the bullet faster) than the 16" twist. Consequently, as the chart reflects in the .224 CF section, the 9" twist is necessary for stabilizing heavier bullet weights.

Concho Bill
 
In Louisiana legal deer hunting cartridges are centerfire and .22 and larger.

So, the discussion about the .22 WRM and the various .20's should be taken with a double handful of salt.

You've had a lot of advice from a lot of differnet directions, so I'll only add that if you do not reload, you should stick to factory cartridges that are readily available to you.
 
Would have to agree with a couple of other posters, that for what you are wanting the 243 win is hard to beat. Its very versatile, handles 50 grain to 100 grain pills without problems, has very decent trajectory, and if not a reloader ammo is very easy to find just about anywhere. On the subject of recoil, the 243 in a 9 lb rifle, 75 grain bullet, using about 38 grains of powder with a velocity of around 3100 fps will have roughly 6 lbs of recoil, the 22.250 with a 52 grain pill, 36 grains powder, and velocity of around 3600 fps will have almost 5 lbs of recoil, in the same weight of rifle. Taken into context of recoil, there is a slight edge towards the 22.250, and also since you want to take an occasional deer the 243 has the advantage of being able to shoot up to 100 grain pills out to 200 yards with more than enough energy to drop a deer and is legal for that type of hunting in all states. Recoil for the 100 gr jumps up to 8.5 lbs of recoil for that loading. ( I am using published load data for Varget powder to get these figures.)

I am posting a link http://kwk.us/recoil.html that will explain the calculations, and allow you to input a rifle, bullet, and velocity configuration and calculate the recoil of it.

In my opinion only, with standard off the shelf loadings, the 243 Win is a caliber more suited to taking deer sized game, and then dropping down in bullet weight to shoot varmints than the 22.250 with all things considered.

Good luck
DR
 
Last edited:
Bill Wynne said:
How twist is measured:

Al, I want to apologize before I try to correct your statement. I know that you know better and simply misspoke. I believe this is the way that Shilen uses numbers to describe twist rate.

By way of explanation, the numbers in the "Twist" column indicate how far the bullet must travel through the bore to make one full revolution. This is determined by the rate of rotation of the rifling. For example, a 9"-twist barrel spins the bullet one full turn when it passes 9 inches through the bore. In a 16"-twist barrel, the bullet makes one revolution in 16 inches. So at the same bullet velocity, the 9" twist is faster (spins the bullet faster) than the 16" twist. Consequently, as the chart reflects in the .224 CF section, the 9" twist is necessary for stabilizing heavier bullet weights.

Concho Bill
Click to expand...

Thanks Bill!

As Randy The Robinett has said, "sometimes proofing doesn't even help because my eyes just accept what my brain puked up."

Bill is right.

al
 
robierto said:
Big thanks to you guys for the warm welcome.

1~they shoot anywhere from 100-400yds depending on which gun that they are shooting.

7~T. I was watching I believe guns and ammo on the sat. the other night and I was watching the ar rifles and was amazed of the light recoil, but I didn't catch on to what cal. they were using. I would really be interested, hell I even went to an ar forum a few weeks ago to find something like my horribly long post describes ( I know, kinda all over the place LOL).
Only to find not alot other than worshiping the .308 and accessories. How does this cal. kick? I've read the armed forces legitamacy of the round and out to 1,000yds it's a nice round I just think some thing lighter, like you mentioned will suffice.
Click to expand...

Recoil...depends on who you ask. I see the guys on here talking about the 308 kicking and it cracks me up. Recoil on my bolt 308's is not worth mentioning to me and it is even less on the gas guns like my SR-25. Maybe this is because I am not a short range guy and have gotten use to the big mags or maybe it is because I am in the under 50 yr but over 50 grains club but either way I am always surprised when someone mentions recoil and the 308 in the same sentence. Oh, well different strokes...

Out to 400 yards I still say the 223. Flat top AR with a good barrel will do everything mentioned in your post and suppressors, parts and factory ammo is easier to find. Don't get me wrong, I own and love most of the rounds listed here...22-250, 243 win, 6mm remington, 6mm TS, 223, 308, etc. but I keep reading your post and you just sound like you need an AR! ;)

Oh hell, you need one of each! And while you are at it pick up a 17HMR too, talk about shooting small critters! :eek:
 
22-250 or 223 with 60 grain partition

this will get the job done within 200 yards if you do your part and drive the gun correctly.

I live in LA and it works for me when I get the whim to use a 22 centerfire.

If you are considering a 243, let that thought pass over you and go with the 260 Rem and shoot 120 grain partitions or triple shocks.
 
awesome

Thanks a lot for the detailed info, it is starting to get me to have a nice visual on the terminology.:)

I took some time today to shoot prone at some paper today with the marlin m-60, after plinking around a few weeks ago I noticed my shots went to poo. The rear clamp on some cheap glass came loose, I am trying to re-sight it in and I really would like to get a nice bench and vise, also a bipod and bags. I will most likely start a new thread eventually to get opinions on this or you could pm me to keep this thread on topic.

I am supposed to shoot the .243 tommorow if weather permits, so I can finally put to rest the recoil demons and hopefully put a feeling with the lbs. to compare to other loads.

If the .308 kicks similar to my 150gr 7mag, to hell with it. I couldn't see plinking with it and costing myself a black eye every few shots LOL. I am so torn between .22----.243 So guys I will try to shoot as many through the next few weeks and hopefully narrow it down due to recoil alone. Then will come twist, stlye, action, accessories, brand and so on. So many to choose from...

Thanks again,
The quest continues...

Rob
 
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