found a new way to be hard on my lathe tonite....

[alinwa]

If you have an American made South Bend lathe it WILL have a tang retention slot in the tailstock spindle.


.

I have a Heavy 10. I don't think it has a solid slot in the tailstock but I'll check tonite....


edited to add..... I have noticed that, like Chet's, my South Bend Heavy 10 has a solid quill, no cross-slot for a knockout wedge or drift so if it DOES have a retention slot I'm really curious how the taper-popping mechanism works!

Learning Every Day

 

[MilGunsmith]

An old fix is to cross drill the spindle and tap for two opposing set screws, 1/4" to 1/2" dia. depending on spindle diameter and taper.

 

[shortgrass]

I noticed with my "New to Me" 12x36" Chinese lathe the tail stock Quill does not have a slot for a tang to register in. This one was spun and galled. I took it to a machine shop that has Morse Taper reamers and they chased it out for me. I filed down the arbor that had spun but ordered another with a new keyless chuck, which came in today.

Thinking about it, I don't think my SB has a tang slot in it's tail stock quill either. Do some lathe tail stock quills have than slots? I was wondering if, perhaps some set screws or some other device could be fitted to hold the tang? But then, how would one disengage it?

Pete

You could drill and tap for set screws, like Milspec suggested. Use a small enough screw so it doesn't cover the whole tang. Removal would be as it is now, retract the quill until the screw (that drives the quill) pushes on the tail end of the tang and pops the tool/tool holder free. Really, you'd be better off leaving it as is allowing friction to connect the tool/tool holder to the quill. These little machines aren't W&S #3 turret lathes, you can't lean on them very hard and expect them to take it. They're hobby machines, and that's what you bought it for. Use good tooling and tools, use good machine practice and you'll accomplish your tasks without incident.

 

[alinwa]

IMO drilling and tapping for opposing screws, IF DONE ON CENTERLINE which would be how most folks would do it, is just silly. And asking for a blowup. A goofy "fix" for a non-existent problem. Doing it OFF centerline might be marginally better but, again IMO, the resultant stress risers could part the quill when extended, unless very carefully effected and relieved.

Of course, I'm the sort of guy who feels that the engineers that designed this stuff back in the day were SMART, and it's becoming apparent that my childish views are at odds with most of the experience in this thread. So I'll back on out now and let the experts talk.

Meantime, I DID learn a nice lesson and if someone can benefit from my silliness then I've accomplished what I set out to do...share my screwup in hopes of saving someone else a liddle heartburn.

Enjoy The Day, All

al

 

[TRA]

The best way to solve issues with your tailstock is to never use it for a drill press. It's not for drilling holes and doing so beats the hell out of them. I am sure I can find dozens of seasoned machinists who will say I did it for years and never had a problem. They probably were employees and not the owner of the machines they ran. With general purpose machining it does not much matter as the accuracy requirements are usually generous, but with all this talk on here about chambering to .0000, taking care of your tailstock would be wise. There's good reason why old used lathes from machine shops have beat up tailstocks.

 

[alinwa]

The best way to solve issues with your tailstock is to never use it for a drill press. It's not for drilling holes and doing so beats the hell out of them. I am sure I can find dozens of seasoned machinists who will say I did it for years and never had a problem. They probably were employees and not the owner of the machines they ran. With general purpose machining it does not much matter as the accuracy requirements are usually generous, but with all this talk on here about chambering to .0000, taking care of your tailstock would be wise. There's good reason why old used lathes from machine shops have beat up tailstocks.

I have to agree with this sentiment. After taking my tailstock apart I'm reluctant to ever again run a radial load on it. As TRA says, it's just not designed for it.

It's EASY! And for light loading OK....And I'm gonna keep doing pool cue work with the tailstock drill but I'm reluctant right now to drill anything more than pilot holes with the tailstock. I hadn't realized this until just the last two days due to my jamming episode and to this thread. Just last night I was thinking about taking it back apart to clean up the "anti-rotation slot" on the bottom and then I thought "maybe I'd better beef up the retainer screw" and then I thought..... "maybe I'd best just STOP!"



Thanks guys for making me think.....

 

[Pete Wass]

To Me - -

the whole purpose of these forums is the exchange of ideas and information AND opinions. As many of us know, there are many ways to do most things, some, sometimes seem better than others.

Unfortunately, there are some folks who do not enjoy exchanging ideas and information; folks who KNOW, as Archie Bunker KNEW.

Thanks all for the exchange. Me, I would prefer to "Horse" big drills through metal to save boring with a bar and to do that, a tang retention would be desirable but I understand the more subtle approach to machining. I will readily admit I am ham fisted when it comes to machining because of the lack of being patient. That being said, the idea of set screws is one I had entertained. My 10L does not have any retention for a tang.

Pete

 

[alinwa]

the whole purpose of these forums is the exchange of ideas and information AND opinions. As many of us know, there are many ways to do most things, some, sometimes seem better than others.

Unfortunately, there are some folks who do not enjoy exchanging ideas and information; folks who KNOW, as Archie Bunker KNEW.

Thanks all for the exchange. Me, I would prefer to "Horse" big drills through metal to save boring with a bar and to do that, a tang retention would be desirable but I understand the more subtle approach to machining. I will readily admit I am ham fisted when it comes to machining because of the lack of being patient. That being said, the idea of set screws is one I had entertained. My 10L does not have any retention for a tang.

Pete

OK,

I agree so much I can't stand it BUT.......

Take a close look at the picture Chet posted to see that the only thing keeping the whole shebang from spinning is a small setscrew running in the slot at the bottom of the quill. And that that little setscrew takes the entire rotational force of horsing the big drill bit while sliding down the side of the slot. Unless the 10L has a hardened key or somesuch??? Now I've gotta' go look!

I'll be back...

 

[alinwa]

OK,

I agree so much I can't stand it BUT.......

Take a close look at the picture Chet posted to see that the only thing keeping the whole shebang from spinning is a small setscrew running in the slot at the bottom of the quill. And that that little setscrew takes the entire rotational force of horsing the big drill bit while sliding down the side of the slot. Unless the 10L has a hardened key or somesuch??? Now I've gotta' go look!

I'll be back...

OK.....it looks like in this regard South Bend definitely has the Grizzly beat. Even though the quill is only 1/4 the size it seems to have an actual key in the race as opposed to the single setscrew of the Grizzly.

 

[Pete Wass]

I don't think there is any question

that the good old American Made stuff is superior, in most ways, to the Chinese stuff of today. The only reasons I went for a Chinese lathe was I wanted a longer bed and an easier place to install a DRO. I readily admit I gave up some things in the process. There were also other considerations for me. I think, all and all, what I bought will serve me as well as the 10L has and I won't live to own it as long as I have the 10L. In my view, the Chinese miss or missed small things that would have given them and us a lot for not a lot extra, the Compound slide, for instance. What's on there works but if it were 25% bulkier, one would have a lot better feeling about it. Of all places to slack off, I don't think this is one of them. Heck, if they had hardened it the same as they did the ways, it would have been a big bonus.

Guess a lad could always make a new and improved slide if he had the skills necessary. Tubalcain has a vid series on one he made for a lathe, so it is doable.

Pete

 

[shortgrass]

If a guy can't manage to drill a 1" hole through a piece of steel, stainless or otherwise, using the tail stock on a 12"-13" swing lathe, without doing damage to the machine or the tool, he needs to re-examine what he thinks he knows about machining.

 

[JerrySharrett]

If a guy can't manage to drill a 1" hole through a piece of steel, stainless or otherwise, using the tail stock on a 12"-13" swing lathe, without doing damage to the machine or the tool, he needs to re-examine what he thinks he knows about machining.

Yep, I totally agree.

.

 

[Pete Wass]

Me too:

Yep, I totally agree.

.

I am certain, after spending a lot of time cleaning up the machine I bought the former owner was a "Newbie" who knew little or nothing about machining, in general. I have punched a few big holes through metal on my old 10L without ever spinning the drill in the tailstock.

Pete

 

[blades]

The sneaky part is when you start exiting the back side- that is where most run in to technical difficulties.

 

[alinwa]

I've heard it said that "drilling and parting are the hardest"

I've fought 'em both to a standstill, got 'em licked.....but.....

Funny to watch all the posts here.

For a lotta' guys NOTHING is a problem!

And I've paid a bunch of them to mess up my projects thru the years

LOL

 

[Pete Wass]

Regarding paring;

I've heard it said that "drilling and parting are the hardest"

I've fought 'em both to a standstill, got 'em licked.....but.....

Funny to watch all the posts here.

For a lotta' guys NOTHING is a problem!

And I've paid a bunch of them to mess up my projects thru the years

LOL

I've become a YouTube Junkie, watching a very lot of vids in which guys have big lathes. It appears to me that rigidity and big horsepower is the real answer to parting.

Same would go for drilling. One of them old Monarchs doesn't have any trouble keeping up, when pushing a 2" drill through anything it can cut. There is a lad in Kentucky who has surrounded himself with some monster machines that weigh huge tons and they tend to have 50 or so HP motors on them. He makes a lot of special engine parts for Pullin Tractors and is able to cut stuff to incredible tolerances with that old iron, say .001" over 30". I find it fascinating and almost unbelievable but I have seen him run an indicator over some of it so He isn't fibbing.

So weight and HP is Trump, no pun intended. Guess I could have said King, eh?

Pete

 

[alinwa]

So weight and HP is Trump, no pun intended. Guess I could have said King, eh?

Pete

So those poor "Never Trumpers" that are all 'round this year have got a real problem eh!

I will sure agree re rigidity for parting.....plus cooling, and sharpness and feed and speed and clearance and tool rake and feed angle and flex and lubricant and the phase of the moon.

My problem is I want to part THIN.....like I wanna' make two or three parts per setup.....


Tough doable but tough


Same with my drilling technique.....I want to drill CHEAP cuz I'm prototyping.....so instead of paying 800-1200 for a decent setup I stuff a $7.00 drill bit into the chuck and make up the difference with Finngenuity. And if I need 50 of something, or even 20, I job it out to a real shop! There are 10 good production shops within a half hour of me.

 

[shortgrass]

I've heard it said that "drilling and parting are the hardest"

I've fought 'em both to a standstill, got 'em licked.....but.....

Funny to watch all the posts here.

For a lotta' guys NOTHING is a problem!

And I've paid a bunch of them to mess up my projects thru the years

LOL

Yep! Al has "fought 'em to a standstill" and "got 'em licked"! That's why he started this thread, because he "found a new way to be hard on his lathe". Yes,, it is funny to read some of the posts here.......

 

[shortgrass]

I've become a YouTube Junkie, watching a very lot of vids in which guys have big lathes. It appears to me that rigidity and big horsepower is the real answer to parting.

Same would go for drilling. One of them old Monarchs doesn't have any trouble keeping up, when pushing a 2" drill through anything it can cut. There is a lad in Kentucky who has surrounded himself with some monster machines that weigh huge tons and they tend to have 50 or so HP motors on them. He makes a lot of special engine parts for Pullin Tractors and is able to cut stuff to incredible tolerances with that old iron, say .001" over 30". I find it fascinating and almost unbelievable but I have seen him run an indicator over some of it so He isn't fibbing.

So weight and HP is Trump, no pun intended. Guess I could have said King, eh?

Pete

Pete, don't be fooled by how things "appear". Yes, rigidity and HP are a plus when doing heavy work. But there is no reason a guy can't do good work (turning, drilling, parting-off) using a 10"-12"- 13" swing lathe (that includes bench lathes,,, and you probably won't be drilling any 2" holes unless it's in nylon/plastic). You just have to take into account that you may not be able to do it as fast. Proper tool geometry, proper spindle speed and feed rate, proper set-up, good work holding (chuck or collet) and good tool holding all make a difference in the final outcome, regardless of machine size. There's no reason on earth why a guy can't part-off half a dozen pieces on a manual bench lathe if he has observed all that I mentioned above, even to include feeding the parting tool with the power feed. These are "basic" principals, traceable back to the beginning of the industrial revolution. Ignore the "basic principals", whether chambering a barrel or parting-off a 1" piece of 12L14, drilling a hole of any size or turning to a given size and the trouble begins!

 

[jackie schmidt]

I've become a YouTube Junkie, watching a very lot of vids in which guys have big lathes. It appears to me that rigidity and big horsepower is the real answer to parting.

Same would go for drilling. One of them old Monarchs doesn't have any trouble keeping up, when pushing a 2" drill through anything it can cut. There is a lad in Kentucky who has surrounded himself with some monster machines that weigh huge tons and they tend to have 50 or so HP motors on them. He makes a lot of special engine parts for Pullin Tractors and is able to cut stuff to incredible tolerances with that old iron, say .001" over 30". I find it fascinating and almost unbelievable but I have seen him run an indicator over some of it so He isn't fibbing.

So weight and HP is Trump, no pun intended. Guess I could have said King, eh?

Pete

Pete, as many on this Forum know, I own a Machine shop with some rather large equipment. We also have small equipment. We perform a large array of machining operations on a wide variety of parts involved in our primary mandate, serving the Marine Industry.

You are correct. The amount of metal you can remove without any overloading of a particular machine is directly related to the overall size, rigidity, and power of that machine.
The picture is our largest a radial Drill. If needed, it will punch a 3 inch hole through mild Steel with no problem at all.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18586&stc=1&d=1477841494

We make a lot of Stainless Steel Steering Pins for Push Boats out of 3inch diameter stock. We used to saw them to length. Now, with insert parting tools and new heavy duty 20 inch lathes, such as the one in the picture, we can part them off at a speed of 300 rpm.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18587&stc=1&d=1477841875