Fireforming a 30BR

T

tootalloutdoors

Guest
If a person fireforms the 6br lapua in a 30br barrel, what is the damage to the barrel?? Is it "just" added rounds?? Or is there some other serious wear taking place?? If done this way, do I then "ream" the inside of the case??

Thanks, Kelly
 
Kelly

Many of us form our cases by firing the parent round, with a smaller bullet, in the appropriate barrel. For instance, 220 Russian with a 22 bullet in a 6PPC barrel, 220 Russian in a 30PPC barrel to form a 30PPC, and 6BR in a 30 BR chamber to form a 30BR. But I would NEVER do that in one of my good barrels.
I can't say one way or the other if it would even hurt anything. I am just saying that I would never do it........jackie
 
Thanks Jackie.. I figured as much.. I was just wondering since the barrels are supposed to handle a large amount of rounds fired. Mine is not for your type of compitition. Mine is a Douglas, on a Savage action.. Hobby type target shooting.. Thanks..

Kelly
 
I used 10g of bulseye

topped off with COW with a wax plug. I did it on a very cold day 5 cases then patch out and let it cool. I did no heat wear on the leading edge of the rifling that my smith could detect. BUT where I made my mistake was not trimming first! The ends of the cases blew out past the neck portion of the chamber. I would have thought that brass being softer than stainless no harm done just trim the little step it created on the ends of the cases off and trim to length then turn and bingo straight cases. But that aint how it worked out. WHere the ends of the cases were slammed into the inside of the throat in the little bit of freebore section it made a sort of wavy pattern of distortion in the steel. I knew i had a problem when I went to chamber a dummy to check to see if the seating depth had changed. That distorted area was pushing the bullets about .200 deeper into the case. I don't know if my smith has the video attachment for his scope if he does I'll see if I can get him to take a pic of the damage.
Larry
 
Larry M,


This is a fascinating snippet of info sir!!! I've had custom chambers made, custom reamers ground and used this method to determine the OAL of the chamber. NOW you tell me that the brass flapping out will DAMAGE the chamber!

THANK YOU!

In future I will find the end of my chambers the old fashioned way, by trial and error..... progressively trimming back until the brass chambers.

Saved by BRC again.


al
 
Most people I know using the 30br are mechanically expanding the necks, trimming to length, turning the necks and then fireforming with whatever 30 caliber bullet they wish to waste with near their normal charge of powder. Randy J.
 
I knew where the end of the chamber was because of a previous batch of cases I had made by expanding up method and then used one of those little plugs that Sinclair sells. But when I had made the first set the cases got shorter when expanded. I had never fireformed without a bullet before and it never occurred to me that they would blow out longer. After the first case when I saw that little step on the end of the neck I thought humm they stretch when you do it this way. I'm thinking there must be a hell of a lot of pressure in there to dent the steel like that. Come to think of it I might have used 15g. the wavy look was from doing it 100 times. Live and learn. But that was an expensive lesson. Who knows maybe it'll shoot better after a set back. BTW I did this because the set I had made last year expanding up bent the necks so bad they never did straighten out after 13 loadings.
 
Fireforming with a bullet..

I have fireformed 400+ 30BR cases using a 6mm bullet and Hodgdon Clays powder. I get cases with the neck extending past the end of the chamber, that have to be trimmed back. I have done this on 4 different rifles and friends have used this method on two other rifles (6 rifles). I have never observed a ridge or dent in the metal of the throat...all 6 rifles shoot very well and each have shot high scores in matches at our club...I would be suspicious of the reamer making that ridge before the rifle was ever fired..
I recommend that if one wants to fireform new 30BR brass using a 6mm bullet, that they clean with wet/dry patches every 5 shots to keep powder fowling minimal...
 
I know it wasn't like that before i made the cases. I had over 1000 round thru the barrel already. I also didn't use bullets. The two methods have differences that would not have predicted. I would like the opportunity to try it again to watch the progress with a borescope and maybe see if it could be done with less powder still get fully formed case and no damage.
 
Larry M,

Other than the experience with the blowout damaging the rifling lands my experience matches yours. Ken Howell was RIGHT about the only way to form UP is with powder :) I never expand more than one caliber or so with a mandrel.

I also agree with you the 13 (or 50) firings will NOT straighten bent brass. IMO you get exactly ONE whack at it so you'd better make it a good one.

I recently used Clays shotgun powder to blow out a bunch of 6.5X47 to 30cal. It went sweet. No heat, no losses, no problems of any sort. I started with about a half a case and ran up until I got what I wanted.


Beeaayootifull



al
 
O.K. So, I want to get some more info here.. If I were to do this with a 6mm bullet,do I just jam it and go for it?

If I used wax or whatever, how exactly is that done? The headspace and chamber are fairly snug. Is that going to hold it centered like a jammed bullet would??

Thanks, Kelly
 
tootalloutdoors said:
O.K. So, I want to get some more info here.. If I were to do this with a 6mm bullet,do I just jam it and go for it?

If I used wax or whatever, how exactly is that done? The headspace and chamber are fairly snug. Is that going to hold it centered like a jammed bullet would??

Thanks, Kelly
Click to expand...

Kelly in my opinion you are missing out on some good practice by not forming your cases with the bullet you plan on shooting in your rifle when your cases are fully formed. The 6mmbr case after being necked up to 30 cal. and the necks turned are real close to that of the 30br formed case. All youre doing when forming the 30 br is straightening the neck and forming the rest of the case to your chamber. It's not like forming the 220 Russian up to the 6ppc. where you are making a different profile of the case . The 6mmbr case after necking up to 30 is close enough to the finished case that you can get good accuracy out of it when fireforming. I did just that ,starting at the lower charge of powder listed on the 30br load info found on the 6MMBR web page. I used the same bullet that I plan on using in the matches. BIB 118 gr bullet , H4198 powder and Fed. match primers. The 30 br is a very easy round to tune. I was shooting in the low 2's while forming the cases. Once they were formed I started shooting in the low one's , with my best group measuring .102" , and hopefully working with seating depth I can get the groups tighter.
 
Yes, just jam that 6mm bullet in there..

Kelly, if you are going to fireform with a 6mm bullet, I recommend a 65-75 grain (cheapo) bullet loaded all the way to the base of the neck over a fast burning powder...(start at about 1/2 case capacity and work up from there)..
seating depth is not critical, the bullet is only used to hold pressure in the case while it is formed by the powder burn/pressure..
 
I loaded 10g of bullseye filled the rest with cream of wheat to halfway up the neck then pressed the neck into a thin sheet of wax made from melting candle wax into a butter bowl lid. the wax is just to hold the COW in place. BUT make sure you trim the cases first. Don't let the barrel get hot and keep it clean.
 
Larry M said:
I loaded 10g of bullseye filled the rest with cream of wheat to halfway up the neck then pressed the neck into a thin sheet of wax made from melting candle wax into a butter bowl lid. the wax is just to hold the COW in place. BUT make sure you trim the cases first. Don't let the barrel get hot and keep it clean.
Click to expand...
Larry,
Sorry for digging out such an old topic but when you say 'make sure you trim the cases first', do you mean length wise or neck thickness wise ?
Thanks,
danyboy
 
danyboy said:
Larry,
Sorry for digging out such an old topic but when you say 'make sure you trim the cases first', do you mean length wise or neck thickness wise ?
Thanks,
danyboy
Click to expand...

There is absolutely NO SUCH THING as "an old topic" sir.....

And since I was THERE when this was being discussed, I can reply in the first person.

Larry meant LENGTH

His contention was that a too-long neck being slapped out would hammer/warp/dent/distort/fold/spindle/mutilate the area at the end of the neck where the too-long neck hit OUTSIDE THE NECK, or beyond the recessed neck cutout, ie where it impinged upon the freebore section of the chamber.

I'm perfectly aware of this because I'd been doing it ON PURPOSE with custom chambers as a shortcut to finding chamber length. (casting new chambers is a pita and I'm always in a hurry)

So I TESTED IT.

And Larry was RIGHT and I haven't done it since while I DO still blow out lotsa' lotsa' (Got 1000 30 Luger cases in the mail just yesterday, got to turn them into 9MM for my kids)

I felt like Such a Foo'..... as here I've always been the guy preaching "Barrel steel is dead soft!!" and "Even BRONZE will scratch barrel steel" and "you can deform a barrel with your fingernail" and on and onandon....

And YET I was cracking the copper whip, suh-LAPPING massive metal down acros't a delicate edge.....

I pus'd up

Larry saved my hide

And now it's just dead easy.....times have changed. The ChiComs came out with a sphincter 'specter for 50 clams

And while I own a thousand freaking dalars of Hawkeye diligence, I never use it.

for 50 bucks get a Teslong and freaking LOOK AT IT!

EVERYBODY needs a Teslong..... everybody.

I have 5

(He!!, Casey Jones only has two!)
 
trim based on the KNOWN NECK LENGTH.
no sense creation a spot for a carbon ring
i am typically only .005 from the end of the chamber neck

alinwa said:
There is absolutely NO SUCH THING as "an old topic" sir.....

And since I was THERE when this was being discussed, I can reply in the first person.

Larry meant LENGTH

His contention was that a too-long neck being slapped out would hammer/warp/dent/distort/fold/spindle/mutilate the area at the end of the neck where the too-long neck hit OUTSIDE THE NECK, or beyond the recessed neck cutout, ie where it impinged upon the freebore section of the chamber.

I'm perfectly aware of this because I'd been doing it ON PURPOSE with custom chambers as a shortcut to finding chamber length. (casting new chambers is a pita and I'm always in a hurry)

So I TESTED IT.

And Larry was RIGHT and I haven't done it since while I DO still blow out lotsa' lotsa' (Got 1000 30 Luger cases in the mail just yesterday, got to turn them into 9MM for my kids)

I felt like Such a Foo'..... as here I've always been the guy preaching "Barrel steel is dead soft!!" and "Even BRONZE will scratch barrel steel" and "you can deform a barrel with your fingernail" and on and onandon....

And YET I was cracking the copper whip, suh-LAPPING massive metal down acros't a delicate edge.....

I pus'd up

Larry saved my hide

And now it's just dead easy.....times have changed. The ChiComs came out with a sphincter 'specter for 50 clams

And while I own a thousand freaking dalars of Hawkeye diligence, I never use it.

for 50 bucks get a Teslong and freaking LOOK AT IT!

EVERYBODY needs a Teslong..... everybody.

I have 5

(He!!, Casey Jones only has two!)
Click to expand...
 
AlinWa has i straight. I damaged a chamber, brass slapped dents into the freebore or chamber. I cant remember, I didnt have a scope, but I had to have the chamber cut off. Oh and 10g of bullseye was way too much.
 
work up a load for your brass and your chamber.
start low and work up in 1 gr steps till the shoulder is clear, then maybe 1/2 gr step till the shoulder junction is sharp,
you can reshoot early cases but always bump the load with a fresh case.
i use fast pistol and less than a 1' SQ of tissue to cap it off.
Larry M said:
AlinWa has i straight. I damaged a chamber, brass slapped dents into the freebore or chamber. I cant remember, I didnt have a scope, but I had to have the chamber cut off. Oh and 10g of bullseye was way too much.
Click to expand...
 
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