Favorite Bullet Seating Depth tool?

mike...
when you say "max oal" you are refering to the lands oal??not tip of bullet oal...correct ?
ya got me confused with your statement.
(my opinion is the stoney point will get me to the lands, repeatable)
mike in co
mikecr said:
caroby, I think the context of discussion so far has been 'methods of finding the lands' from which to reference seating depth settings.
The sinclair/stoney point/Hornady tools referred to so far are for finding max oal.

The nut works great, but it is only a comparator used with resp to a max oal dummy round.
Click to expand...
 
mikecr said:
The nut works great, but it is only a comparator used with resp to a max oal dummy round.
Click to expand...

If you are using a case with a long seated bullet to find the "jam" by having the lands push the bullet into the case for a given bullet/chamber combination, then a "comparator" is what you need to find the measurement. I personally prefer the stonypoint ogive gage to the Sinclair "nut", but they both do the same job.
 
No matter the tool used(if using one at all) to create max oal(bullet touching, casehead to tip), anyone would then need to take this to OgvOAL using a preferred comparator.
They are different tools. You don't 'create' max oal with a comparator. You find OgvOAL with a comparator.
I was just trying to clarify that to keep apples with apples.
 
i honestly thought the original question was about SEATING depth tool...ogive...not coal...cartridge oal.
some people kinda drifted around for a while....
mike in co
 
After reading the different methods I got curious how the jam length would compare to my touch reading with the Stoney Point gage so I took some 69 gr Sierra MatchKing bullets and used the Stoney Point gage and then loaded a dummy round and greased the tip and jammed the bullet.... there was 0.140" difference. The jam was 0.140" greater and left no obvious marks on the bullet. I don't normally shoot the 69 MK bullets, but decided to load accross that range of difference and see what the seating depth does accuracy wise. The jam length was 0.136" greater than magazine length. - nhk
 
mikecr said:
How did you create your touching -vs- jammed condition?
Click to expand...

I used light finger pressure to a stop with the bullet through the Stoney Point gage and then I lightly neck-sized a case and started a bullet, applied grease, and closed the bolt (ejector removed) on it. This is a factory rifle and the throat is not symmetrical, or is offset, which some people prefer I'd say. I would guess the offset stopped the bullet with the finger pressure because I can force it past that point and the bullet will stay in the throat when I remove the gage. - nhk
 
nhk,
the proper touch in using precise measuring tools is a learned skill. if you could move the bullet an additional 130 plus thou...your touch is off. its not just a light touch but feeling that you are at the end also. it takes a little time. there is atleast one poster on here that claims the tool does not work, because HE could not use it.
practice, practice and practice.
mike in co
nhkuehl said:
I used light finger pressure to a stop with the bullet through the Stoney Point gage and then I lightly neck-sized a case and started a bullet, applied grease, and closed the bolt (ejector removed) on it. This is a factory rifle and the throat is not symmetrical, or is offset, which some people prefer I'd say. I would guess the offset stopped the bullet with the finger pressure because I can force it past that point and the bullet will stay in the throat when I remove the gage. - nhk
Click to expand...
 
Technique

I stop at a touch out of preference. I allow the case neck to direct the bullet until it stops and then seat backed off. My theory is if the bullet is tipped by the offset the tip will not be centered in the bore, but if you jump, the bullet will bump up into the grooves before the rifling engraves and will be closer to concentric. That rifle has shot well for me this way. Without an offset, it's not an issue. The point of handloading is to get the most out of an individual rifle and that may require experimentation. Which is what I intend to do with the 69 gr MK bullets.

We each have our own way of doing things and I've learned what works for me, correct or not, through trial and error over 40 years, but I'm always interested in re-visiting the process and hearing other opinions. - nhk
 
What the hell, it's the 50th post in this thread. My favorite tools are calipers, scotchbright and a loupe. Gotta have them all. The rest -- barrel & case & bullet aren't really *tools*, but are all I need.
 
50th post

Charles E said:
What the hell, it's the 50th post in this thread. My favorite tools are calipers, scotchbright and a loupe. Gotta have them all. The rest -- barrel & case & bullet aren't really *tools*, but are all I need.
Click to expand...

Hey, we missed you Charles! 50 posts, but look at all the things I've learned I've been doing wrong. - nhk
 
I had a Sinclair tool

years ago and quickly saw the oportunity for errors to creep in so I sold it. In my mind, the only certain way to determine the actual seating depth is with an inert case, the bullet from the lot of bullets you are going to use, lite neck tension and one's rifle's bolt.

That method is so easy to do and so reliable please tell me why a person would ever want to go at it differently, please - - - -

It also helps a lot to have a seater with a micrometer top so that one can reliably push their bullets back in reliable increments.

I can pretty much tell everyone this, With normal neck tension and cranking the bullet into the lands, one has seated their bullet at least .016 and perhaps as much as .025 into the lands. From where it becomes a bit difficult to see land marks and where one can just fainty see land marks is 5 or 6 thou. So, if a person is .006 in, they are in a lot less than most people and I have found, over the years that .006 has been a magic seating depth in my 30 cal tight neck little or no freebore rifles.

So, to answer the question, no devices beyond a case and a bullet.
 
No devices beyond...

Pete Wass said:
So, to answer the question, no devices beyond a case and a bullet.
Click to expand...

I'll suggest one more device... neck sizing dies. The last time I used jam length to find seating depth I was still using full length sizing dies (20 years ago?) and they were sizing the neck down .004" and I was getting a lot of engraving when I seated by jam (I wasn't greasing the bullet either). I tried a cleaning rod and stop collars, but after using the Stoney Point gages I went that route. Now that I can get a minimal neck tension with bushings I think I'll go back to using the case and (greased) bullet. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks! - nhk
 
ok peter
what is the number that goes with ogive oal length when you get done ???
the stoney point tool with your own case allows one to measure that magic seating depth...you have a number to go alone with it...now when you go to seat bullets you can measure loaded rounds and know you have the same length.
your mention of variations in "into the lands" is exactly why i say use the stoney point tool. measure to the lands and then adjust in and out with the seater.
and yes i agree a seater with a micrometer top is almost required.

mike in co
Pete Wass said:
years ago and quickly saw the oportunity for errors to creep in so I sold it. In my mind, the only certain way to determine the actual seating depth is with an inert case, the bullet from the lot of bullets you are going to use, lite neck tension and one's rifle's bolt.

That method is so easy to do and so reliable please tell me why a person would ever want to go at it differently, please - - - -

It also helps a lot to have a seater with a micrometer top so that one can reliably push their bullets back in reliable increments.

I can pretty much tell everyone this, With normal neck tension and cranking the bullet into the lands, one has seated their bullet at least .016 and perhaps as much as .025 into the lands. From where it becomes a bit difficult to see land marks and where one can just fainty see land marks is 5 or 6 thou. So, if a person is .006 in, they are in a lot less than most people and I have found, over the years that .006 has been a magic seating depth in my 30 cal tight neck little or no freebore rifles.

So, to answer the question, no devices beyond a case and a bullet.
Click to expand...
 
mike in co said:
ok peter
what is the number that goes with ogive oal length when you get done ???


mike in co
Click to expand...

"OK Mike"....... I don't normally get into it with you but I'm tired and pi$$y (I think this an acceptable acronym for our current crop of SUper ModeratORs)

This is a goofy question on it's face.

So elucidate

Please

explain to all us knuckledragging savages exactly why "the Sinclair number" is somehow more relevant or magical than just measuring a loaded round to the ogive....more specifically a round which has been fired in and is fitted to your rifle.....

??

al
 
naw al you got me wrong...
i use a fired threaded case with a stoneypoint/hornady/sinclair.......
your comment measure to the ogive......measured with what....
your early post said seated to the lands and a micro seater, no mention of how the length of the seated bullet was transfered to the seater/recorded or what...
that was my point...the sinclair/stoney ogive tool will allow one to measure to some point on the ogive, recordable and repeatable.measureable on the loaded rounds.
it sounds like we are saying the same thing...you left a couple of things out of your original post...so i was asking.
no pizzing contest with ya al...

mike in co
alinwa said:
"OK Mike"....... I don't normally get into it with you but I'm tired and pi$$y (I think this an acceptable acronym for our current crop of SUper ModeratORs)

This is a goofy question on it's face.

So elucidate

Please

explain to all us knuckledragging savages exactly why "the Sinclair number" is somehow more relevant or magical than just measuring a loaded round to the ogive....more specifically a round which has been fired in and is fitted to your rifle.....

??

al
Click to expand...
 
Ohh jeepers, I spelled it wrong!!

"OK.... I'm tired and p!$$y"........ altho one of The Supers just used it un-anacronized.......rotflmao

My details;

fired round set to exactly the 'feel' I want,(I most often use an old loose-primer reject case resized juuuust so...)

primer popped out

Neck tension (adjustable) set juuust so

measure with calipers over choice of ogive tool, I use the Sinclair 'nut' or my selection of Hornady/Redding/Jones/Sinclair or even some home-aid barrel stub gizzies

Don't need a loupe, yet, but silver sharpie is wicked for coarse measurements (the only kind I really care about anymore, half-thou's aren't meaningful to me)

Bottom line, I find a solid seat with "something" as near leade diameter as possible and write down a number and description of the "something" used for that pertickler round. (I measure a LOT of weird rounds)

I also load for people, sometimes mailing rounds for rifles I haven't seen for years......... Long distance tuning requires hid'jus note-taking or a prodigious memory. I need to have the ability to repeat from long distance. I've come back to barrels years later and found perfect repeatability.

anyways, I'm less p!zz!# now

therapeutic

LOL

al
 
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