Doubling with a shooter next to you

CYanchycki

CYanchycki

Club Coordinator
So is it fact or fiction that it is possible to loose a shot due to doubling with a competitor next to you?

This is what happened to me this past weekend at our first match of the year. The guy to my left, he was up wind of me, doubled with me. The shot went about 1/2" right of where it should have printed. The flags or probe gave me no indication that it should have gone anywhere but into the group. It rattled me for that target and the next until I settled down to close out with a .277 and a .550 at 200 with some pretty stiff winds.

Is it possible? What are your thoughts or observations? Mine is that his bullet was just that much ahead of mine. Or am I just putting the blame on something else?

Calvin
 
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I know I've had this happen, too. If his shot was just a split second ahead of yours, maybe you flinched a little and jerked the trigger. Just a thought.

Jerry
 
I suspect that if your shot left the barrel a ms after his, that his muzzle blast could have some effect on your shot.
I do know that to me...when both shooters on either side of me shoot somewhat simultaneously, it is very disconcerting to me, but what do I know....I don't anneal my brass after every shot! :)
 
its happened to me,,its allways the guy to your left for some reason.lol...
i was at a shoot where the guy on my left, his rifle seemed noticeably louder than mine or the shooter on my right..i will say he was on fire also with some tiny groups..
but on the last shot me and the shooter on my right was waiting on the flags to come back and as soon as they did we both fired at the same time and i would say it wasent bad but did affect me ..but the fellow on my left i waited till he fired before i did cause if we doubled it was real bad..
 
I think that it would be interesting to do some tests that involved trying to double, and once it could be reliably done in a way that shows up on the target, try different schemes to try to prevent the problem. If the rifle is being moved, perhaps a small blast shield would provide protection. On the other hand, if the bullet is being disturbed in its flight, I am not sure that anything can be done, other than keeping an eye on your immediate neighbors on the line.
 
Oh Boyd I PAID ATTENTION after that. I was actually a bit paranoid but that soon passed after I closed out the yardage.

There is also something else I learned about using my SEB rest. I was told early on the best way to come into your point of aim is to use an upside down J or egg shape. What I found was the rifle did not move when it was on point of aim and my hand off of the stick . The issue was when I was moving to the point of aim and the shooter on either side shot. What I learned was I quite often went past my point of aim. I would then just move my rifle back up to the POA. Nope, not good enough. I lost 2 shots that way. Repeat the ENTIRE step and not just move back up. After I started paying attention to that no more lost shots. At least from what I could tell.

Calvin
 
I have doubled. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. Shake it off and keep going.
A really good shooter was next to me. Left side we doubled a few. He said it did not matter.
What mattered. He could see his cross hairs move when I closed my bolt. And I am not a bolt slammer. :confused:
 
There have been a lot of theories about the shock waves and muzzle blasts of doubling with a shooter next to you.
I however have not seen any absolute scientific studies regarding the issue.
Sooo at this point the only provable factor is flinch.
But I do await something solid that is more than just mathematical formulas
 
About seven years ago we set up a pair of rail guns one bench apart at the indoor shooting range at El Cajon, CA. We intentionally tried to shoot at the same time. Without fail, whichever gun went off second always had that shot drop and move away from the other gun. I have absolutely no doubt that doubling is for real.
 
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Doubling will sometimes cause a "BIG" shot and other times won't cause anything. It's best not to double. Look through your scope as the shooters on both sides of you fire a shot. If your point of aim changes then make an effort to prevent doubling. If it doesn't change then make an effort to increase doubling.
 
It is possible that the why of the one shot is sometimes affected and sometimes not is we are all thinking of the one we know about.
I would venture that out of 2, one is always affected. That being the second shot. Remember if there is just a milisecond difference in when the bullets leave the barrel then one of the shots is second and traveling next to and/or in the shock wave of the first one. Just a theory.
 
Thanks Gents for your thoughts. I paid attention to my crosshairs when the other guys were shooting and they appeared to hold. No jump at all. At least I could not see them move. When the doubled happened, "Oh Yah", I hated the outcome.

My initial thoughts were, wind from the left, shooter I doubled with to my left, bullet went right when it should have been in the group. Condition did not warrant it going that far right.

Will just have to pay more attention to this in the future.

Calvin
 
A lot of factors can play into the effect of doubling. Distance between benches, sturdiness of benches, gun/rest setup, etc. With the supershoot coming up, it's a good time to note that you do not want to double at Kelbly's range...bad juju. I have had shots that left the reservation and some that were not effected, best advice is to what your crosshairs while those around you shoot.

Hovis
 
Ok we know that the muzzle blast can cause the next shooter to flinch and or his rifle to move slightly if not solid. BUT are there any known issues of the sonic or air type with the bullets traveling that close to each other going down range?
Or how close to each other can 2 jets fly at supersonic speeds?
 
I would not call "doubling" so much as firing at the same time but firing just behind a shooter next to you. In such circumstances I think "doubling" does occur and impact on the target will be affected.
 
Beats me. I know I can feel the muzzle blast, especially of short barrelled rifles. Could the muzzle blast actually be disturbing the aim? (I'm just grabbing at straws here.)

Jerry
 
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Round numbers, if you figure the rifle is pivoting in the middle of the ears of the rear bag, and use 40" as the distance to the muzzle, from that point, .001 of muzzle movement should give about .1moa displacement of the bullet impact. If you are getting doubling with rail guns, then the probable cause is the shock wave's displacement of the bullet. That should give the "bullets are not blown sideways by the wind" guys a lot to talk about. ;) The next step would be to keep extending a solid baffle farther down range between the rifles to see how far forward the displacement can occur. Of course I would start with it just to the muzzles to see if that solved the problem. If that did, then the problem might be fixable.
 
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