Do drop tubes actually work?

[JerrySharrett]

I have been trying heavy loads with 133 . Two very good shooters Gene Bukys and
Bob Scarbrough load hot. Heard Jackie shoots only two loads with 133 both above
30 gr. I have had some good results Thanks to Billy helping me with process.
It does work. See Jackie you do help people you do not even know !
Thanks to all

Do like LC does, pour it full then tamp it down using a plug in your Wilson, then seat the bullet. 31.5 grains is easy.

Seriously, get a MTM funnel kit. Use the 4" tube and a Slow pour on the side of the funnel so it swirls. That is as full as you can get it without packing it.

With that load of 133, you are guaranteed a bunch of 4 and 1's unless you really know a couple of tricks...

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[Dave Coots]

Dave, I noticed, loading in the barn my load of 10X 30.3 would fill the case to 1/8" in the morning. At noon and 91 degrees it only took 28.2 to fill the cases to the same level!

PS my motor home is now being towed to Ashland, Ky. When they get to the Cedar River you can pull the motor!!

Nope, Jamison 16 yo!!


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Pull her another mile into the shop and we'll change it for you. We're in the middle of putting a new 3406 long block in a loader. Might as well do another.

 

[)Stephan]

As a newbie to benchrest, please let me ask the following:
Why do you try to fill your cases as much as ever possible?

Or "Why do you not use a faster powder e.g. N130 for the PPC"?

 

[alinwa]

As a newbie to benchrest, please let me ask the following:
Why do you try to fill your cases as much as ever possible?

Or "Why do you not use a faster powder e.g. N130 for the PPC"?

Faster powder can't produce the same velocity. Typical loads for the 322/130 burnrate powders is (was) nearer 3250fps

 

[JerrySharrett]

As a newbie to benchrest, please let me ask the following:
Why do you try to fill your cases as much as ever possible?

Or "Why do you not use a faster powder e.g. N130 for the PPC"?

Stephan, good question. Why load so hot? I guess because it works.

When I first started shooting benchrest, for a long time I didn't even own a full length sizing die. Most used a Wilson neck die and that was all it took. Now some of the top shooters load so hot they throw away their cases after a couple of aggs. Some having to use a small base die at least once in the meantime.

At the 2016 Super Shoot my two best groups in LV100 were 0.132 and 0.196 and were shot with loads that chronograph at 3525 fps.

The way to go?? All I can say about this madness is there are now more teen aggs in the top 20 than there were a couple of decades ago.

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[bluechip]

Well, good news and bad news. When I had the issue of the bullet not seating to depth due to compressing the powder, I dropped down .001 in my neck sizing bushing AND was easily able to get 29.5 grains of N133 in the 6 PPC. It seems the combination was too much because the fifty cases I brought to a match were hot. After the first shot with them I could barely open the bolt and there were two other signs of over pressure, a shiny extractor spot and primer that swelled around the firing pin. I got pretty good grouping at 28.4 grs., bad at 29.2, then good again at 29.5, but it looks like the hotter loads are just too close to the danger limit so I guess I am forced to back down to the lower amount even though the hotter loads may have been better by a small amount. Any ideas?

 

[glp]

Ideas...yes

Well, good news and bad news. When I had the issue of the bullet not seating to depth due to compressing the powder, I dropped down .001 in my neck sizing bushing AND was easily able to get 29.5 grains of N133 in the 6 PPC. It seems the combination was too much because the fifty cases I brought to a match were hot. After the first shot with them I could barely open the bolt and there were two other signs of over pressure, a shiny extractor spot and primer that swelled around the firing pin. I got pretty good grouping at 28.4 grs., bad at 29.2, then good again at 29.5, but it looks like the hotter loads are just too close to the danger limit so I guess I am forced to back down to the lower amount even though the hotter loads may have been better by a small amount. Any ideas?

go down in your powder load and do a ladder test and find the best grouping that is a safe load!

 

[dnal]

The reason WIND
3500 FPS is fast and HOT for ppc
How much neck clearance do you have ?
May want to increase it !

 

[Dick Grosbier]

Thanks to all, I tried doing a slow pour while tapping and was easily able to fill the case with more than enough room for seating. My logic had to witness it for myself to see that it works though, it sounded too good to be true somehow!

As Jackie said "Don't overthink it. "

 

[alinwa]

The reason WIND
3500 FPS is fast and HOT for ppc
How much neck clearance do you have ?
May want to increase it !

Do you think the difference in drift between 3250 groups and 3500 groups is enough to change an agg? Have you ever actually checked the wind numbers?

I'm not saying that 3500 doesn't agg better in many setups but I am saying that if 3250 aggs better in your gun, the wind difference is never worth it.......nor even findable.

 

[Wilbur]

There are no "hard" rules and each barrel is different. If you load for the best accuracy and have difficulty with the cases you need to do one of two things. Either reduce the powder or get another barrel. If the barrel shoots well enough to win with the reduced load...cool. If it doesn't, get another barrel. You can't fight cases and win a Benchrest match.

 

[dnal]

Alinwa I honestly do not know the answer to that .
Just listened to Bob Scarbrough , Gene Bukys . they set up hot
for nasty conditions. Iam not good at reading the wind yet . Aligators
eat my lunch everytime. So I am trying something different. Gotta know for
myself. As Billy and Bart said this sport is not easy if it was everyone would do it.
I am not having any case issues except when I shoot up around 31gr. lose primer
pocket after second firing. I have saw promise on paper, sure.that may change.

Cheers

 

[skeetlee]

I chambered a Krieger barrel for myself a couple weeks back. The barrel is shooting really solid, but I cant shoot anything over 28.5 grains of N133. 2013 lot. I normally start my new barrel tune with 133 at 29 grains of powder and work up from there. With this darn barrel anything hotter than 28.5 grains the bullets splash all over the target. Ugly for sure. Drop back down to 28grains and the barrel shoots 1's. I guess I don't ever recall owning a cut rifled barrel that I had to shoot such moderate loads. This one absolutely requires it!! Point is, every barrel is different, and its up to the shooter to figure out what each barrel needs.
I like shooting the hotter loads myself. I guess in my mind, a little extra speed at 200 yards sure cant hurt. Lee

 

[mwezell]

Has anyone tried blowing the shoulder forward a few thou and ditching the long drop tube and all that goes with it?

 

[jackie schmidt]

Has anyone tried blowing the shoulder forward a few thou and ditching the long drop tube and all that goes with it?

Yes. I still have the barrel I used for it. I ran the reamer in .030.

That was some 10 years ago. I had a zero freebore reamer that kept the bullet somewhat in the shorten neck.

It didn't shoot as good as my standard .050 throat reamer. But I never had a proper sizing die made.

If you do it, you really should have a dedicated reamer ground to accommodate the actual length and the shorter neck that results.

 

[mwezell]

I agree about the die but I fInd it hard to imagine .030 making any difference in accuracy potential. ..but do see how it would make this conversation moot.

 

[JerrySharrett]

Has anyone tried blowing the shoulder forward a few thou and ditching the long drop tube and all that goes with it?

In 2000,with his eyesight failing, Ferris Pindell sold me his tooling for the 40 degree shoulder experiment. There were reamers a seater and several gages he had made. My first effort was to take one of the 40 degree reamers and run it in 0.035" deeper at the neck shoulder intersection and adding the 40 degree shoulder. This chambering, the 6-40 dune, held 3.5 grains water more than the traditional 6 PPC. I mostly shot this chambering with a 90 grain Berger boattail in 600 yard IBS. In 2008 It placed 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th in the IBS 600 Nats at Oak Ridge.

In the meantime I had another reamer modified to have the 40 degree shoulder run through the body/shoulder intersection. This chambering, the 6-40 Tyger, shot better than I have the last four years I have used the standard 6 PPC.

These chamberings all had 0.266 necks. I once ask Ferris why the 262 neck. He said that at the introduction of the 6 PPC it took reducing the brass available, at the time, to 262 to clean up. When I went back to the 6 PPC I shot the 266 neck, now I am back o the 262...why?? Something to do.

At the recent Super Shoot I shot a 3525 fps load of Rl-10x. My first record group at LV100 was a 0.132, the 5th record target was a 0.194". Then playrime!!


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[mwezell]

Thanks Jerry

 

[JerrySharrett]

To further the conversation on drop tubes and changing the case capacity as an option when loading the 6PPC.
Below is the other two PPC cases I wrote about above and showing how they differ by adding the 40 degree shoulder in two different places.

The short neck case is the 6-40 Dune and it holds 3.5 grains more water but still favors the traditional V133. etc.

The long neck case is the 6-40 Tyger and requires a different powder consideration, generally faster powders such as IMR4198 (which at one time was a favorite PPC powder but left much of the case unfilled) and curren H322..

 

[mwezell]

Similarly Jerry, the case on the left is Lapua small primer, small flash hole 6.5 Grendel brass. The one on the right is 6PPC. Obviously, the neck is a little shorter and the shoulder is a little farther forward...070", to be more precise. Otherwise, the two are virtually alike.