Debt reduction?
- Thread starter Charles E
- Start date
Debt Reduction
That was a very good read Jerry'
I hope some others also read it.
That aside the budget Really needs a good read also.
The waste in it boggles my mind. They throw around millions of $$$ like it pennies .
It doesn't surprise me as to who votes for what. Personal gain seems to be the thing that drives these politicos.
That was a very good read Jerry'
I hope some others also read it.
That aside the budget Really needs a good read also.
The waste in it boggles my mind. They throw around millions of $$$ like it pennies .
It doesn't surprise me as to who votes for what. Personal gain seems to be the thing that drives these politicos.
Jerry,
Who has paid the price for the dot.com bubble, the energy bubble, the mortgage bubble that was created during the so called economic boom of the 90's....we have so far found out that taxes were paid in on money that wasn't earned so that the stock market would look good and dividends paid out. Come to find out, the money didn't really exist. People have short memories. All we did in the 90's was essentially borrow money (surplus's) that we are now paying for.
The politicians really outsmarted the people on that one.
Hovis
Who has paid the price for the dot.com bubble, the energy bubble, the mortgage bubble that was created during the so called economic boom of the 90's....we have so far found out that taxes were paid in on money that wasn't earned so that the stock market would look good and dividends paid out. Come to find out, the money didn't really exist. People have short memories. All we did in the 90's was essentially borrow money (surplus's) that we are now paying for.
The politicians really outsmarted the people on that one.
Hovis
Debt Reduction
Not really . If you trust the stock market with your money your bound to loose.
what really hurts are the super low interest rates that Banks pay to depositors
The federal reserve has stuck it to us The world bank is something else. Time for some changes in Banking.
The system is out dated.
Not really . If you trust the stock market with your money your bound to loose.
what really hurts are the super low interest rates that Banks pay to depositors
The federal reserve has stuck it to us The world bank is something else. Time for some changes in Banking.
The system is out dated.
C
canuck
Guest
Big business runs the U.S not the government( because the government caves to big business) and big business has always put their own greed ahead of the country.The only way out of this is to elect government with a high level of morals and integrity( good luck because the people don't want it)Just look at the 2008 crisis.They new this was coming,they all did but kept going because they were getting rich off it.They could not have cared less about the U.S as a nation.Frankly they should have all been taken out and hung as traitors which probably would have happened if it had been 100 years earlier. Instead they got big fat bail-out bonuses. Only in the U.S of A.
Also, I believe a much greater crash is coming and sooner than you think. Right now your economy is built on a house of cards.Anyone who thinks the U.S is recovering is ignoring the facts.
Also, I believe a much greater crash is coming and sooner than you think. Right now your economy is built on a house of cards.Anyone who thinks the U.S is recovering is ignoring the facts.
Last edited by a moderator:
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
This puts things into a much better perspective as to the present economic situation..
Lesson # 1:
* U.S. Tax revenue: $ 2,170,000,000,000.00
* Fed budget: $ 3,820,000,000,000.00
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000.00
* National debt: $ 16,271,000,000,000.00
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000.00
Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:
* Annual family income: $ 21,700.00
* Money the family spent: $ 38,200.00
* New debt on the credit card: $ 16,500.00
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $ 162,710.00
* Total budget cuts so far: $ 38.50
Got It ?????
OK now,
Lesson # 2:
Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:
Let's say, You come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood....and your home has sewage all the way up to your ceilings.
What do you think you should do ......
Raise the ceilings, or remove the $hit?
Lesson # 1:
* U.S. Tax revenue: $ 2,170,000,000,000.00
* Fed budget: $ 3,820,000,000,000.00
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000.00
* National debt: $ 16,271,000,000,000.00
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000.00
Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:
* Annual family income: $ 21,700.00
* Money the family spent: $ 38,200.00
* New debt on the credit card: $ 16,500.00
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $ 162,710.00
* Total budget cuts so far: $ 38.50
Got It ?????
OK now,
Lesson # 2:
Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:
Let's say, You come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood....and your home has sewage all the way up to your ceilings.
What do you think you should do ......
Raise the ceilings, or remove the $hit?
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
Here's my take on the debt situation -- I don't think it will ever be paid off (it may be refinanced, but it won't be paid off), and as long as fools are willing to loan money to the gov't the gov't is going to take their money because it makes everyone feel more prosperous. When the fools reach the end of their lending capacity/tolerance the consequences will be painful -- for them and us; in the meantime, the ceilings will rise.
Bob Griffin
New member
Its really kind of simple. It doesn't matter if its you, me, a town, county, state, or Country, YOU CAN NOT SPEND MORE THAN YOU MAKE. YOU CAN NOT BORROW your way out of debt. The Two parties need to put the crap aside and figure out what is right for the country. PERIOD.
V
vicvanb
Guest
Not likely
Don't hold your breath. The "deal" to end the shutdown was purposely crafted to fight the same battles all over again in 3-4 months. The committee to craft a budget plan and identify spending cuts will never produce anything agreeable to all by mid-December. Besides, a similar committee effort already failed once before. Congress had everything it needed for a spending cut blueprint in the Simpson-Bowles Commission report but they did nothing with it.
Despite a strong message that the present situation isn't working, they continue down the same road.
Don't hold your breath. The "deal" to end the shutdown was purposely crafted to fight the same battles all over again in 3-4 months. The committee to craft a budget plan and identify spending cuts will never produce anything agreeable to all by mid-December. Besides, a similar committee effort already failed once before. Congress had everything it needed for a spending cut blueprint in the Simpson-Bowles Commission report but they did nothing with it.
Despite a strong message that the present situation isn't working, they continue down the same road.
Debt Reduction
Yet again more Kool Aid from Vic.
Anything that Simpson said or plans is crap. Big butt liar that he is and was.
He was one of the biggest Tax and Spend supporters of all time.
No the Answer is for Congress to really go over the federal budget and read it line by line , to make the necessary cuts.
That would take the better part of a whole session. That would have to be a non partison effort by all concerned.
The budget is Crazy.
I could list a lot that could be cut . so could many others here. Lets hope they get their Heads out of their butts and get some common sense cuts ''
First let have a resolution to get America Back to work. and stop draining the treasury.
Yet again more Kool Aid from Vic.
Anything that Simpson said or plans is crap. Big butt liar that he is and was.
He was one of the biggest Tax and Spend supporters of all time.
No the Answer is for Congress to really go over the federal budget and read it line by line , to make the necessary cuts.
That would take the better part of a whole session. That would have to be a non partison effort by all concerned.
The budget is Crazy.
I could list a lot that could be cut . so could many others here. Lets hope they get their Heads out of their butts and get some common sense cuts ''
First let have a resolution to get America Back to work. and stop draining the treasury.
B
Bill Ohio
Guest
There's only one thing clear from this thread: you are a friggin' hypocrite. This website is all about benchrest shooting. The greatest governmental document ever written is the US Constitution. The greatest guarantee of the people keeping the government under control is the 2nd Amendment.
And you, with your asinine views, support liberal Democrats, who, if they could, would repeal the 2nd Amendment and fundamentally change what little remains of the constitutional USA to their twisted ends (i.e. socialism). And your ability to spout off, i.e. 1st Amendment 'Freedom of Speech' would go next.
Liberalism really is a mental disorder. And you, and any supporters of the anti-2nd Amendment legislation, should be permanently banned from this and all other shooting-related sites (including physical sites like shooting ranges).
And speaking of Democrats, let's not forget that JFK and LBJ got the US into Vietnam, which FORCED non-volunteer Americans into the draft, so they could be maimed and killed in that debacle. More than fifty thousand American, KIA, and more than that number have since committed suicide. The modern army is all volunteer. Nobody serves who didn't freely join up.
The fundamental difference between the left and the right is that the left believes other people should be FORCED to pay for somebody else. Such cowardice. Pathetic. So you back your government bullies to fight your battles. And your only "logic" is that two wrongs make a right. Insane.
Ban him Wilbur, please. He'd gladly see the government take your guns.
Sure, I can do that. Bush II is easy, we'll save him for last. Reagan was the first. He wanted to reduce taxes; his was the economic plan/vision the Democrats called "voodoo economics." Regan's own economic advisers didn't use that term, though some -- notably David Stockman -- did call them "stupid."
A good summary can be found
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics
In then end, money didn't trickle down to the middle and lower classes, but the rich did get richer. As Max Smart was wont to say, "Sorry about that."
While cutting the revenue side by lowering taxes, Regan embarked on a strong increase in spending, mainly on the defense/military front. In effect, he defeated the Soviet Union by getting them to play "spend more to keep up military." Rather stupidly, the Soviets played along, so the U.S. bankrupt the Soviet government. A successful tactic, if one could recognize it as such, and then, having achieved the objective, back off & pay down the debt necessary to achieve the goal.
Of course, that didn't happen. Bush the first added to he debt. In fairness, he tried to raise taxes (revenues), but was rather severely handled by the Republican faithful for the effort. Debt wasn't brought down until the Clinton administration. Using skewered logic, some Republicans claim credit for that.
Now I'm one of the people who felt Bush II was too dumb to offer much of a threat. Regardless of where you come down on the man personally, I & others forgot he had friends, just like Warren Harding (go look him up). While there was no Teapot Dome ripoffs, the military contractor friends & political allies involved with Bush II were successful in their attempt to influence him, and wound up doing rather well, financially.
The problem with them doing rather well -- by getting spending up -- was that Bush II cut taxes even further than Regan. I'm pretty sure he's the only American President who went to war & didn't raise taxes. Certainly no one else went to war and lowered taxes. So after ripping through the surpluses from the Clinton years, Bush II just borrowed. And borrowed. The party faithful and the wealthy were still happy -- they had lower taxes.
And the schemers like Rove were probably happy too. Clearly the Republicans would be out after Bush II. The Democrat administration that followed would inherit that debt, and have to deal with it. Moreover, the Republicans could hammer at them to "reduce spending because the debt's so high." And reducing spending would men the Democrats couldn't get anything much done, especially on the social front, so would in turn be vulnerable in the subsequent election. Any social programs -- Democratic mainstays -- could be labeled "unaffordable." (Never mind that the debt was occasioned by defense spending, not social programs.)
Do I think Obama care is the answer? Of course not. We need a single payer system -- because the problem with health care in the U.S. is the costs, not who pays. Apparently only the Federal Government is big enough to get the "negotiated rates" where we can afford heath care. We pay tens to hundreds of times more than the rest of the world for exactly the same medicines (no, I'm not just talking about "generics") and procedures.
It didn't have to be that way, but that's what happens when a group gets greedy, and we as a people let them get away with it. They get big and powerful enough, it takes someone equally large to put a stop to it.
Edit
(from a long article in the NYT entitled "The Soaring Cost of a Simple Breath" Sunday, October 13, 2013):
* * *
We're doing the same thing with education, by the way.
Most everyone agrees that increasing the education -- the knowledge base -- of our populace is our only out; to (1) address the cycle of poverty & welfare, and more importantly, (2) to be able to compete with the lower wages of manufacturers overseas.
Not to mention the beginning of lower manufacturing costs via reduction in wages within the U.S. by robotic technology. Currently, a robot with a 2.5-year lifespan, that can completely replace a warehouse worker, costs about $32,000. Y'all can figure out what robots don't need that humans do, and you can divide $32,000 by 2.5 for an annual cost... And robots will get cheaper...
So, who's winning on the education front? Well, the bankers are getting richer...
Interpreting the data is just no fun at all. Maybe Tea-Party Republicans should be allowed only the health services available to the founding fathers. The rest of us, Independents & Democrats, get what's available now. We sure do live in different worlds.
Last edited:
C
canuck
Guest
Personally I think average American Joe Blow can't see the forest for the trees so to speak.
The root cause has very little to do with taxes in the current time frame.It really boils down to corruption( the influense of BIG BUSINESS). Who does free trade really benefit? Now let's be honest it didn't pan out like you were all led to believe. Free trade allowed the rich to export American jobs off shore,to break the backs of unions etc. Big Business and unions have to both play fair if the U.S has any hope of turning around.
Free trade should only be implimented with countries like UK,France,Germany etc and of coarse subsudies etc all have to be taken into account. Free trade with countries like China,Koreo,Mexico etc etc is pure and utter National suicide on every level for any advanced country such as the U.S etc. Now the Rich know this but guess what? They care more about their short term gains than any country they call home. They are the opposite of patriotic. They are like traitors devouring anything and everything for personal gain. Are all the Rich and successful like this? Of coarse not but it is very often like a plague . It takes leaders and the average person on every level with integrety and morals to really turn things around. I simply don't see this happening as it has gotten completely out of control.It is indeed a slippery slope.
The root cause has very little to do with taxes in the current time frame.It really boils down to corruption( the influense of BIG BUSINESS). Who does free trade really benefit? Now let's be honest it didn't pan out like you were all led to believe. Free trade allowed the rich to export American jobs off shore,to break the backs of unions etc. Big Business and unions have to both play fair if the U.S has any hope of turning around.
Free trade should only be implimented with countries like UK,France,Germany etc and of coarse subsudies etc all have to be taken into account. Free trade with countries like China,Koreo,Mexico etc etc is pure and utter National suicide on every level for any advanced country such as the U.S etc. Now the Rich know this but guess what? They care more about their short term gains than any country they call home. They are the opposite of patriotic. They are like traitors devouring anything and everything for personal gain. Are all the Rich and successful like this? Of coarse not but it is very often like a plague . It takes leaders and the average person on every level with integrety and morals to really turn things around. I simply don't see this happening as it has gotten completely out of control.It is indeed a slippery slope.
Last edited by a moderator:
T
Texas Plinker
Guest
There are a few farmers in Congress and most of them are millionaires who often get farm subsidies that they vote for. On a vacation to Iowa this last summer I was amazed by the number of farmers who are millionaires. The day of the small family farm is fast diminishing with large individual or corporate farms becoming more and more the norm. Farming is now big business and this is the trend of the future. This past year I heard of one small Iowa farm that sold for $18000+ per acre. When you said "like it use to be" does not mean the way it is now.
I think I did! Ran outta Little Debbies and had to go back to work.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Plus, O. D. McKee died. For those out of this area O. D. McKee was the founder of McKee Baking Inc maker of the Little Debbie line of snacks.
I met O. D. in about 1990, he was 86 at the time and still running the company. If this world had more O. D. Mckees and less lawyers we would be much better off.
How many Little Debbie cakes have I eaten, Wilbur? Tons!! Just for example, at the recent River Bend shoot I took a box of Little Debbie Cranberry muffins, a box of Little Debbie'
chocolate chip muffins and a box of Little Debbie Fudge cakes.
http://www.mckeefoods.com/About_us/Company_History/default.htm
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
V
Boy, do I agree with most of that. I was a loyal Republican till Reagan. Then I went independent and NO I did not vote for Clinton or Bommy Wommy!
Why did I not like Reagan? With his "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" he made the Communist movement the good guys. Did the "red" threat go away? Did they throw away one bullet, one nuclear sub, one Atomic ICBM (still aimed at the US, one Communist navy ship....no. The Red Dawn is still on our horizon.
One place I might differ with what Charles E wrote is his phrase "Tea Party Republicans". To me the true "Tea Party" is not even an official party at all...yet.
The mindset "Tea Party", their time is yet to come...hopefully.
I do totally agree with Charles that Bush II was a stupid illiterate dummy who was controlled from behind the curtain.
Boy, do I agree with most of that. I was a loyal Republican till Reagan. Then I went independent and NO I did not vote for Clinton or Bommy Wommy!
Why did I not like Reagan? With his "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" he made the Communist movement the good guys. Did the "red" threat go away? Did they throw away one bullet, one nuclear sub, one Atomic ICBM (still aimed at the US, one Communist navy ship....no. The Red Dawn is still on our horizon.
One place I might differ with what Charles E wrote is his phrase "Tea Party Republicans". To me the true "Tea Party" is not even an official party at all...yet.
The mindset "Tea Party", their time is yet to come...hopefully.
I do totally agree with Charles that Bush II was a stupid illiterate dummy who was controlled from behind the curtain.