Custom Barrels That Do Not Perform Well

L

L. E. Hanson

Guest
To take a hypothetical situation, let’s say I end up with three new custom hand-lapped barrels fitted to my LV BR rifle. I test them all and determine how they perform. If I find one that clearly performs better than the other two, how do I manage that situation? Use the best barrel exclusively and just ignore the other two? Use the other two for informal shooting? Sell them? How do you guys manage multiple barrels that perform at different levels?

LE Hanson
 
What are you looking for.....

L. E. Hanson said:
To take a hypothetical situation, let’s say I end up with three new custom hand-lapped barrels fitted to my LV BR rifle. I test them all and determine how they perform. If I find one that clearly performs better than the other two, how do I manage that situation? Use the best barrel exclusively and just ignore the other two? Use the other two for informal shooting? Sell them? How do you guys manage multiple barrels that perform at different levels?

LE Hanson
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in the 3 barrels?If you expect them to all perform exactly the same, I would say you are always going to be disappointed. But if you are willing to consider each one of them as unique specimens and they still do not shoot, then time for them to 1) go down the road to someone else, or 2) cut the stub off and re-chamber it for something else ( prairie dog rifle or deer rifle), or 3) throw them away. But first remember my first statement, there are a lot of barrels that will perform if you just take the time to figure out what they want. May be different bullets, different powder, or just a radically different seating depth.
 
put it in mothballs till the big shoot and practice with the others.you need to determine what a big shoot is.
 
All barrel makers have their ups and downs....

I have been rebarreling rifles since the early 1970's. I have seen some great barrel makers come and go. I have seen some come back better than ever.

A few years ago I was using a well known barrel makers barrels and my customers were shooting pretty good. Barrel makers are only as good as their vendors steel and their employees can make them. For a while Crucible Steel went into the financial crapper. Then the barrel makers best lapper quit. His barrels qulity when down hill faster than one can beleive. The better barrel makers stand behind their barrels and replace the bad ones or refund the customers money. It doesn't take but as couple of bad barrels and the word gets out. Then even if the barrel maker gets back on top of his game it takes time to regain the shooting communities trust again.

The best and worst things are:

1. Is the barrel maker honest, does he reconize a problem and address it or does he go into denial.

We are very spoiled here in America because we have some of the best barrel makers in the world. With this said, if one gets a crappy barrel he or she can switch barrel makers and just about be assured they will get a quality barrel from the second barrel maker.
Nat Lambeth
 
You can also get two identical barrels made at the same time, same lot of steel, same lapper, same everything and one barrel may shoot exceptionally well and the other may just shoot alright. I had two Harold Broughton barrels made by him and everything done by him as to manufacturing the barrel. I did the gunsmithing and set up and chambered both barrels the same way. The first barrel won the 100,200 and grand of the first two matches that I shot with it. The second was so so. If barrel makers could figure out what it is that makes some barrels better than the others and could duplicate it, they would quickly become the premier barrel maker in the country. Unfortunately, no one has been able to figure out what makes some barrels great and others not. Too many variables that the barrel maker has no control over from the steel that they use to the gunsmith that installs the barrel and even to the shooter who is shooting the barrel.
 
I have talked to 3 different barrel makers about the steel, and what problems they are having. They all say "we order our steel the way we want it and there isn't any difference".....yeah right....
 
Nat. . . .hypothetical question. . .your generalized guesstimate: What percentage of "bad" barrels are caused by flawed chambering skills? Assuming crafted smiths and barrels attached to top quality BR actions.
 
Is there any evidence that hammer forged barrels are more consistent ? Not necessarily better, consistent.
 
hammer forged barrels are more consistent
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None that I'm aware of that make Benchrest barrels........ Not to mention blanks...

Hard to see how all that stress build-up in a hammer forge tube can be consistent..?

Like Mike said...
Lotta variables make each barrel unique.... Head scratch'n for sure.
cale
 
There was a gent that posted here long ago from Walther. He wrote like he knew a bit about barrels and stated that hammer forged barrels had the potential to be the best but were somehow cost prohibitive.
 
That was 'Woody' (Woodall ?)

Wilbur said:
There was a gent that posted here long ago from Walther. He wrote like he knew a bit about barrels and stated that hammer forged barrels had the potential to be the best but were somehow cost prohibitive.
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IIRC. He was the production manager at Lothar Walther USA, I believe. We had quite a lively series of exchanges about barrel making in general.
He said, in so many words, that Walther was capable of making barrels to any specification whatever as to tolerances, pitches, and average accuracy requirement.
I told him that, if that was true, all he needed to do was put a few of his finest barrels into the hands of some top BR shooters, and corner the market - and that if his claims proved correct, it was unlikely that the cost of such barrels would scare folks who already spend so much in order to be competitive, let alone to have the absolute (proven) best available.
I don't recall seeing anything from him in quite a while, now, or hearing of any Walther barrels sweeping-up all the trophies (any of them?) in BR competition.
mhb - Mike
 
mhb said:
IIRC. He was the production manager at Lothar Walther USA, I believe. We had quite a lively series of exchanges about barrel making in general.
He said, in so many words, that Walther was capable of making barrels to any specification whatever as to tolerances, pitches, and average accuracy requirement.
I told him that, if that was true, all he needed to do was put a few of his finest barrels into the hands of some top BR shooters, and corner the market - and that if his claims proved correct, it was unlikely that the cost of such barrels would scare folks who already spend so much in order to be competitive, let alone to have the absolute (proven) best available.
I don't recall seeing anything from him in quite a while, now, or hearing of any Walther barrels sweeping-up all the trophies (any of them?) in BR competition.
mhb - Mike
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Oh yes, the perveyor of the infamous "Bubabba quality control method" of manufacturing, garaunteed .250 moa or better level of accuracy fired off of the company pick-up hood in any conditions....................the claim heard by enough competitors in my region to doom all use of Walther products.
 
Can we please get back on track with the original post? My question is "how do you guys manage multiple barrels that perform at different levels". In other words, if you have several barrels and one shoots great and the others shoot so-so, what do you do with them? You payed a lot of money for them so what do you do with them? Do you work with them until you give up and toss them in the can, how much effort do you put into a barrel that only shoots so-so before you toss it in the can? I'm attempting to get a handle on how to manage my barrels, most of which shoot so-so to various degrees. I am speaking in terms of your typical 6mm PPC LV BR rifle with the best barrels available installed by a highly regarded gunsmith.

Thanks
 
L. E. Hanson said:
Can we please get back on track with the original post? My question is "how do you guys manage multiple barrels that perform at different levels". ....... I am speaking in terms of your typical 6mm PPC LV BR rifle with the best barrels available installed by a highly regarded gunsmith.

Thanks
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You are not asking a question with a set. black or white, yes or no, answer. You can take 2 barrels, cut from the same piece of bar stock, drilled and rifled on the same machine,, lapped by the same lapper on a same given day, chambered by the same gunsmith on a same given day and they will possibly not perform exactly alike......fact!

If a barrel does not perform to your expectations, send it back.
 
That depends on what you expect from the barrels. Barrel makers usually guarantee uniformity not accuracy.
The skill behind the butt has alot to do with it too.
All we can say is if you get a real shooter your lucky. Put it away like it was suggested and use the other for practice. I have had some refuse to shoot until they had a few rounds thru them. Of course if the barrel is really bad have your smith check it out. Usually agood smith can find the problem if its really bad. Most of the barrel makers are pretty good about
checking out problems with their barrels. One of the problems are internal stresses in the bar stock.
They are stress relieved but not necessarily cured. No one has control over indivdual barrel harmonics.
You could try having the barrels frozen. sometimes that will cure a stress problem.
 
I would have the smith check it first . Then shoot it morewith a different tune. different bullet powder load etc.
Then if i didn't get results i would have the barrel maker check it. If its ok then I would try a stress relieve
cryo . everyone is different .
 
My answer (so far) to the original post is that I try to shoot each barrel enough in real matches to know it's real potential. Then I try to use a barrel that is good enough to place where I want in any match I shoot in. I may need my best barrel for even a small match if I want to win and know the level of competition warrants. On the other hand, when I'm feeling more social than competitive or the conditions/distractions are unfavorable at best, I'll might try the sub-par performer, an old re-run, or even a brand new, untested barrel. The key is knowing your own mental state and goal before the match starts, and then selecting equipment that will help you meet that goal without wasting valuable resources (hummer barrel life or premium lot of bullets).

We would all like to win every match we enter, but the reality is we each value each match differently. A few years ago I shot the best barrels I had all the time because a win in even a small match was a huge feel-good to me. Now I'm not shooting nearly as many matches and I am much more selective about using local events as learning/testing opportunities and saving known-good resources for premier events where I know I will need every competitive edge in my closet.

Rod
 
FBecigneul said:
Hmmmm.

"then time for them to 1) go down the road to someone else,"

Does he mean he sells them?
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Just because a barrel isn't a match winning barrel, doesn't mean that it's not plenty accurate enough for a varmint rifle. The only thing is that most of the time, 100/200 yard benchrest barrels are a little short for most people for varmint rifles. I've sold a few of my old take off barrels to a local prairie dog shooter rechambered to either 6 BRX or .22 BRX depending upon the barrel. He's been tickled with them. He shoots light weight bullets through them because of the twist rate.
 
Gunsmith vs Barrel being the problem...

tenring said:
Nat. . . .hypothetical question. . .your generalized guesstimate: What percentage of "bad" barrels are caused by flawed chambering skills? Assuming crafted smiths and barrels attached to top quality BR actions.
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Tenring:

The only time when I see another gunsmiths work is on rifles that are sent for evaluation, rebarrel or set back. Only occasionly do I see both poor threads and/or poor chambering job. Usually associated with impropper setup an/or machining practices. Most of my customers use only good gunsmiths and the best available barrels. Let me say there are some very talented gunsmiths here in America. There work is just like art work and I can be reconized by its individual characteristics. Sometimes I see a combination of a poor gunsmithing job and poor quality barrel this is usually on the customer who wants something for as little as possible. Generally one gets what he or she pays for. Gunsmiths who use good quality machines, good tooling, and good machining technique rarely do poor quality work. With high end barrels the lapper can tell when a barrel is not right. IF the barrel makers QC is up to par very few poor quality barrels will get out the door.

I personally think there is little to no accuracy advantage of cut rifling vs button rifling if they both have all the necessary processes done.

Nat Lambeth
 
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