Confused!

B

bbradford71

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I am not really sure what section to post this in so please bear with me as I am new here. Last year about this time I purchased a Savage Model 16 300 WSM to use for deer season. I was getting back into hunting after taking a few years off and no longer had a deer rifle. I really did not want to buy a scope/rifle combo but did not have the funds to do it right in the given time frame that I had. I took it to the range and had their smith bore site it for me and I proceeded to sight it in. I was amazed to learn that I was not even on paper at 100 years. Long story short it took me two weekends and over 40 rounds to get the rifle sighted in which I attributed to the very cheap piece of crap scope that was on the rifle. I did have a good season and was fortunate enough to harvest two deer and two yotes, all taken at distances over 200 yards with with the bullets hitting the point of aim.

A few months back I bought a new scope (Vortex Viper), a new base and rings and had them all mounted. I had them installed and worked up some loads to take to the range this weekend to get the rifle sighted in. To my disbelief it was the same as last year. I fired all 20 rounds I had taken with me and I am not even on paper. I had one of the range hands spotting for me and he could not really tell me where I was hitting when I fired. I have sighted in many rifles over the years and never had one take more than three shots to zero, what could be wrong?

Thanks in advance
 
Most common reason is due to the stamped recoil lug not even close to being straight. Factory hunting rifles are normally just fine with stamped lugs, but not always. You should be able to tell just from eyeballing it, the scope will point straight down the rifle but the barrel will not. I have repaired many for this issue. Take a pic or a look and let us know. Savage would cover this but it might take awhile, easier to fix it through your gunsmith.
 
Thanks, I have been considering buying a recoil lug from SSS, I have a B & C Metalist on order and should be getting that any day now.
 
without trying to be rude...start at 25 yards and work your way out. remove the bolt, put the gun on a rest/bags and actually bore sight it onto the target. now look thru the scope. no touching of the rifle. id how far off it is at 25yds and crank on ths knobs. remember 4 times as many clicks at 25 than at 100. now do it again. doing it this way you should be on paper with your first shot. just a waste of time and ammo to guess your way on to paper at 100 with an unknown zero.

and propably shoul dhave posted in the factory forum.

mike in co
 
Thanks, I guess paying someone to bore sight it for me was a total waste of money!
 
Yes, paying someone to bore sight it for you was a waste since the guy evidently didn't know what he was doing.

Do as Mike said. If you hit exactly dead center at 25 yards you are going to be high at 100 yards and back on at 200 +/-, almost exactly what you want for deer hunting at most reasonable distances.

With iron sights, do the same thing at 12 1/2 yards.

It's an old hunter's trick that Jack O'Connor used to teach. If you are ever in the woods and your scope gets knocked askew, you can get back on by shooting only 25 yards.

Ray
 
I had this happen once with a brand new Savage. It turned out to be a lose bolt. Later I noticed Savage never made this rifle with the stock it had on it. Evidently some Wal-Mart employee swapped stock with another rifle. That's Ok, I got the rifle 1/2 off, and now it shoots tiny groups.
 
I've had rifles that were supposedly bore sighted that have been off the paper at 100 yards, and as several others have said set the rifle up solidly in sand bags and at 25 yards (or 100 yards if you have a target with a large enough bullseye to see at 100 yd through the bore). If the rifle is way off to one side which was the problem in both the rifles I had that "boresighted" and off the paper, you may need to use windage adjustable mount/rings or Burris Signature rings with an offset bushing set to get on the paper. You don't want to use up all your windage agjustment trying to get on the paper at 100 yards.
 
I had this happen once with a brand new Savage. It turned out to be a lose bolt. Later I noticed Savage never made this rifle with the stock it had on it. Evidently some Wal-Mart employee swapped stock with another rifle. That's Ok, I got the rifle 1/2 off, and now it shoots tiny groups.

That is interesting, how would one know if their bolt was loose? I have noticed that when I fire the rifle the bolt handle lifts up about a half inch or slightly less. What can be done if it is a loose bolt handle?
 
Bolt handle

After firing the pressure is off the main spring and you will get some loose lift until the cocking piece pin engages the ramp and that is adjustable on a Savage. If the handle itself was loose the bolt assembly screw on the back of the bolt would have to be loose.

Larry Elliott is right about bore-sighting. - nhk
 
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After firing the pressure is off the main spring and you will get some loose lift until the cocking piece pin engages the ramp and that is adjustable on a Savage. If the handle itself was loose the bolt assembly screw on the back of the bolt would have to be loose.

Larry Elliott is right about bore-sighting. - nhk


The handle itself isn't loose, how do you adjust cocking pin on a savage?
 
Having spent considerable time helping hunters sight in rifles during sighting in season, at a couple of ranges, there are a couple of points worth mentioning. Mike has the bore sighting thing right, but there are a couple of things that are generally overlooked that need to be taken care of before you do that. On your Savage, there are two action screws. The rear one is at the front of the trigger guard, and the front one is up closer to where the the barrel meets the action (on the underside of the stock). On Savages, back of the trigger guard is secured with a screw that attaches it to the stock, not the action. Most hunters don't check their action screws to see that they are properly tightened before coming to the range. If the rifle is being sighted in for the first time, nothing is lost by removing scope and rings to check scope base screws. There are a few tricks to this because sometimes screws can be too long, tightening without properly clamping the base to the receiver. The front base screw is the usual culprit. It can bottom on the barrel shank. After making sure that the bases are properly secured, you ca remount the rings and scope, making sure that the rings are properly tightened on their base(s), but take it easy when tightening the rings on the scope. For this to really be done properly the rings should be lapped, and or bedded, but that is another story. Now that you have the scope securely on the rifle, hopefully with the cross hairs vertical and plumb, and the back of the scope in the correct location so that the shooter will not have a Weatherby cut over his eye, when shooting from the bench or prone (a bit of a stretch when shooting off hand), the next step is to focus the eyepiece for the person that will be using the rifle. Again, this is a story of its own. Look around on the internet for instructions, they may not be perfect, but they should get you started. Next you can bore site the rifle, by actually looking through the bore. If you are in a typical suburban neighborhood, this is probably best done at the range. The basic drill is to support the rifle with a rest, rifle vise, or sand bags, so that you can adjust the rifle's position so that you can center something like the black bull on a target, so that it is ABSOLUTELY centered in the bore....perfectly. (You can use a target at 100 yd. for this. Someone else's is fine, since you will not be shooting at it.)Then, without touching the rifle, look through the scope and note where the intersection of the cross hairs is, relative to the center of the bull. From here, you adjust the cross hairs till they are in the very center..perfect, and at the same time, the view through the barrel is perfectly centered. Do not bother shooting a round until this is accomplished. It will take a while the first time that you do it. A good tip is that when moving the cross hairs to a spot, you need to run the turrets backwards to to how you would when adjusting your bullets' impacts. later in the process. If the cross hairs need to come up, turn the vertical turret in the direction that would move a bullet hole down, and if you need to move them to the left, move the horizontal turret adjustment in the direction that would move a bullet hole to the right. It will take several tries to make this adjustment. After you have both views exactly the same, take a rested shot at the center of a sighting in target, that has a 1" grid, at 25 yards. If you did the bore sighting right, you should be on the paper, and if that is the case, you can make gross adjustments to get to the center in as few shots as possible. For example, if you adjustment clicks are for 1/4" at 100 yd., those came clicks are worth 1/8" at 50 yd. and 1/16" at 25...so if you are 1 1/2" high and 2" left, you need to put in 24 clicks down, and 32 right. Any time that you need to make an adjustment that involves turning the knob or slot counter clockwise, you should go by your intended adjustment by 4-6 clicks, and then come back to your intended point of adjustment in a clockwise direction. I got this from the late dick Thomas of Premier Reticles. Other common mistakes are resting the barrel on the sand bag, having the sling swivel studs in the bag. or where they will slide into the bag on recoil. Not following through after the shot goes off. Doing a quick heads up, immediately after the shot goes off tells you nothing, and is detrimental to accuracy. And jerking the trigger, instead of gradually applying increasing pressure, and letting the rifle surprise you when it goes off. If you do all of this correctly, you should have enough ammo left, in that box, to go hunting, and remember you are sighted in for that particular load, switching brands and or bullets, will mean that you need to adjust your scope. You will be on paper, but you need to check you scope settings, and will probably have to make changes. Good luck!
 
Thanks everyone, I will try these things out next trip to the range
 
Two shots is all it should take from a rest.
Fire first shot, then while holding the rifle securely at the aiming point on the target adjust the cross hairs to where the bullet hit on the target, second shot should hit where you aim.
 
except the rifle may change point of impact as it warms...so while 2 is ideal, hunting needs 3 shot confirmations....

mike
 
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