Choice between an FN or Springfield for build

N

noone

Guest
I will be having a rifle built, and have been offered my choice between a Belgian FN Mauser action, or a Springfield Mauser action. I am leaning toward the FN just because of name reputation, but would like to get some input on the following:
Presuming I will have both actions trued, and the lugs lapped, then actions properly bedded into a quality stock

1. Which action has the best accuracy potential
2. As I do a fair bit of tactical rifle shooting the 20 round mauser magazine
conversion is attractive unless it detracts from accuracy. I can always cut the magazines down to between 5 and 15 rounds. Will this conversion hurt anything?
3. Which action will be smoother, have better durability, and be less likely to
develop any problems?
I will be using either an Obermeyer 5R .264 barrel with 1-8.5 twist, or a .308 Obermeyer 5R with 1-11 twist. Cartridge is yet to be determined in both calibers.
Many thanks ahead for your input.
 
May I STRONGLY suggest the Rem 700 or Savage action??? :)

Yes the Springfield IS a modified Mauser design but whoever's selling you a "Springfield Mauser" is leading you down The Rosy Path.... And the "Belgian FN Mauser" could be anything. My GUESS is that it's a post-war civilian Mauser like the old Parker Hales or Mk X's etc......shiny outside, washed out lettering from the polish and about 20degrees of slop in the retracted bolt. And in BOTH cases a firing pin fall that's glacially slow. You pulls the trigger and waits while the massive mechanism gains momentum like a truck cresting a grade, then as it picks up speed you wonder, "should I put on another click???" and then BOOM! You could correct your picture two-three times before that pin finally bottoms out.

Well OK, I hyperbolize a little :D

But they won't shoot. Even if you can live with their crudity, THEY WON'T SHOOT!

I've built them both from the ground up. From welding the bolt handles to straightening the action rails to modifying the feed ramps to fixing the safeties to milling them for scope mounting, the list is endless and NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO they won't shoot in a bucket!!!! My first "Real Custom Deer Rifle" was a "Star-Gauged Springfield 03-A3, probably a sniper rifle" and I put a hunk of wood on it that would cause car wrecks....

And it wouldn't shoot in a BUCKET!

I've since learned that if you really want to modify a factory rifle and make it SHOOT...... just start with Rem or Savage. There's a whole LIST of reasons as to why this is true but IT IS! Really, for an accurate platform these things are both really hampered with design flaws which can't be rectified. I'd save both of them for a dangerous game rifle build..... within 100yds they'll work fine but YOU!...... You've tasted The Long Shot :):):):) You've bellied down with the Big Dawgs trying to hit under-moa at yardage....

Stay Away from these actions....Start with something else no matter how good the deal seems. It's money wasted to try to make accuracy with a Mauser/Springfield design.


In My Opinion :) Worth EXACTLY what'cha paid!


LOL


al
 
noone said:
I will be having a rifle built, and have been offered my choice between a Belgian FN Mauser action, or a Springfield Mauser action.
((snip))
2. As I do a fair bit of tactical rifle shooting the 20 round mauser magazine
conversion is attractive unless it detracts from accuracy. I can always cut the magazines down to between 5 and 15 rounds. Will this conversion hurt anything?
((snip))
Click to expand...

Your tactical shooting probably means a cartridge that will work in a short action. I don't know how you get a 20 round mag in a Mauser or Springfield but it must be available.
My suggestion is to seek a rifle builder that offers a choice between a Remington, Savage or Remington clone from a custom action maker.
How many Mausers and Springfields have you seen at tactical shoots or in the hands of serious tactical or longrange shooters?
Locktime is very important to longrange accuracy shooters.

Jay, Idaho
 
Springfield/Mauser (?)

No, I never heard of one either: have several 03-A3s' and even an original 03-A4. They are "battle rifles", with lock time that is measured in minutes, overly long ( for 308) ctgs.), less than rigid receivers, old steel making technology, etc. O.K. for building a "shooter", but not the first choice for precision-type shooting. Pickup an older Remington 700 SA, or a newer Savage, and have no regrets later. Been there, done that.
 
WOW you guys are tough :eek:

While I agree with the jist of whats been said and neither one would be a first choice, it all really depends what his expectations from it are.
It wont shoot bug-holes, but I think reasonable accuracy levels could be had with either.

I own an FN Mauser in 22-250 thats 3rd hand, had loads of rounds down the tube, is still "straight from the factory" and shoots well under MOA.

I also own an 03' hunting/sporter that wears a Shilen #4 barrel in the original 30-06 chambering and a Loupy 3-9. It has no problem putting non-match 165 & 180gr Nosler hunting bullets into 1-1 1/4" groups.

I've also played with my uncle's original 03' NRA National Match, star gauged heavy barrel, complete with antique Lyman external adjustment scope.
(with the front ring mounted on the barrel, foward of the rear sight)
It had no problem putting factory FGMM match ammo into sub MOA groups either.

Just my $.02
Cheers, YV
 
The springfield is a modified mauser action, I mis-stated what it was earlier, but it is the 1903/1903a3 type springfield.

The info about lock times is really helpful, and will keep me from wasting having time put into either of these two actions. The choice of actions is a gift, but I will take Alinwa's, and everyone elses advice and keep these types of actions for a hunting type rifle that does not need the precision I am used to.

I'm currently shooting a Mcmillan built M40A1 in 300 win mag, Sako TRG 22, and FN SPR-A3G, so trying to get these older actions to do what I am used to would be an exercise in frustration. The money and effort would be far better spent by starting out with a quality action.

If I was rich, I would really like to build off a Surgeon, Bat, Stolle, Nesika, or Stiller action.

I'll take the advice I asked for and not proceed with either the FN, or Springfield actions.

The 20 round magazine for the Mausers was developed by the Germans during WW1, and Brownells offers a reproduction of it that works quite well. I set one up for a friend in his old 8mm mauser and it works great.

But for what I want the final product to be (a precision rifle) I can see that these actions simply have too slow of a lock time to be worth the work.

Many thanks for all of you for your input. I WILL take the advice I asked for.

Now to get a good action..probably a Remington as I am familiar with that system.

Is a 40X action any better of a starting point than any other Remington action if I plan to have the action trued, and lugs lapped, and all he other standard accuracy work done?
 
Before you do all that work on a stock Remington, you might want to add up the price of acquiring the action, all the necessary machine work and a ground recoil lug, and compare the total to the cost of a Stiller Predator, that comes with a lug, and doesn't need fixing.

Three friends have rifles built on these actions that they are very pleased with. In addition to the machining being correct, the bolt fit is better, and the accuracy could not be better.

Slow down and find yourself an actual Benchrest gunsmith to do your barreling. They don't cost any more, and in some cases less than some guy that claims he is good but has no record of building successful competition rifles.

If you want to save some money on the project, do your own stock fitting , finishing, bedding and rifle assembly work. Just take your time and do it right. Good luck with your project. BTW you might look at the relatively new 6.5 x 47 Lapua as a possible candidate for tactical work.
 
there are a few things you can do to speed up the lock time on mausers & springfields.
on mausers you can get the tubb alm/titanium firing pin & heavier spring along with grinding the cocking piece & the sear buy about .030 each to shorten the amount the firing pin has to travel. with one of the flat bottom comercial cocking peices you can go back .060 with no problems.
the springfield is similar except their isn't an alm/titanium firing pin available for it & you would want to remove the cocking knob from the cocking piece to lighten it up.
 
Thanks for a very interesting discussion. I regret that I had not seen this data before I purchased a 1903-A3 with the goal of conversion to a 6BR bench rifle. .....

:(
 
noone

If you are talking about today's FN's actions, not the ones from the middle of the last century, Then I would have to say go for it! Scores of tactical rifles are built for this magazine fed action. Fact is if you go toa site like Guns America and look under FN you will see a lot of tactical rifles wearing the FN action from this century.

Sometimes, us old guys live to much in the past, don't know what is going on in this century. How do I know this? Cause I r 1.:D


http://www.gunsamerica.com/947664944/Guns/Rifles/FNH-Fabrique-Nationale-Rifles/Bolt-action/Tactical/FN_SPR_ACTIONS.htm

Just to save the other old duffers from doing a search.:confused:


http://www.gunsamerica.com/932877065/Guns/Rifles/FNH-Fabrique-Nationale-Rifles/Bolt-action/Tactical/FNH_USA_LLC_PBR_XP_TACTICAL.htm
 
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The current young guy fasination with "tactical" gear and black T-shirts escapes me but both the O3 and 98 actions make some great hunting rifles. Those actions made in the FN plant are some of the finest ever available.

Actually, the potential accuracy from either action is little different from newer actions but the difference IS real! Their lock times are nearly twice as long as a Mod 700. Even so, they are pretty fast but competition shooters have long since drifted away from either. I guess it's fair to say those "tactical" types who plan to shoot at people, or dream of doing so, are better served with more modern actions such as the Remingtons and Savages.

I don't understand how you could have already chosen a couple of potential bore sizes AND twist rates but no cartridge. Were your choices taken from a magazine article????
 
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"Tactical" references

wncchester: While I agree with your views on "tactical"/ advertising that is most likely directed to all the swat team wannabes', cannot understand your reference to those who use Remington & Savage receivers, as "types who plan to shoot at people, or dream of doing so". I presently have 6 Remington 700 and 3 Savage receivers that have been blueprinted, fitted with Hart,Shilen and Krieger barrels, in 22BR, 6ppc, 6BR (3 of those), and numerous other long range rounds, used for bench-rest precision/varmint matches, all converted to single shot, weighing in excess of 12 pounds, etc. These extremly accurate TARGET rifles have been built with one purpose: Target match competition, and medium to long range varmint hunting. I've been riding Harleys for over 30 years now, and have never worn a "black T-shirt", while riding, or any other time, so there goes another of your theories.
 
FD, it seems I have offended? Sorry. But I would note that I voiced no theory, just my observations.

In my defense, my point about Savage and Rem actions vs. Mauser and Springfield was based on exactly your build. The message being they are far better choices for any accuracy pursuit, target or "tactical". So, perhaps you got burned where there was no heat?

I really don't care what color T-shirt anyone wears, it's the mind set that goes with some colors for shooters that can be amusing to observe. But, perhaps you will forgive me for being dense on this, what's your point about Harleys?
 
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"Tactical"

wncchester: Not offended, sorry if i gave that impression. I think we can both agree the "tactical" issue is getting ( or already there) out of hand. "Precision Shooting" just had a multi-page article on "Tactical knives", ( what the hell does that have to do with precision shooting?), and we've all seen the "tactical pants", boots, belts, flashlights, yada-yada-yada. "Tactical" sells products, I guess, for all the wannabe swat team dreamers out there, most of whom have gotten their "knowledge" from the latest Hollywood movies/ crap. I think mid-Winter cabin fever is creeping up on me.:(
 
Can't disagree with the consensus to use a 700 action today, but did some of you forget that the FNs were shooting 1/2 min. groups in the early BR matches 60 years ago? That's good enough for any HUNTING I can think about.

Good shooting.;)
 
I finally got to the point that I am wallowing in Mausers. I can play with them to my hearts content. Only problem is, when you go for accurracy you sort of hit a wall at a certain point. Beyond that it costs as much or more for every extra bit of accuracy you get and you will run into a barrier short of what the other actions will ultimately deliver. That doesn't mean I don't love e'm. Sometimes love isn't blind.
 
"...FNs were shooting 1/2 min. groups in the early BR matches 60 years ago? That's good enough for any HUNTING I can think about."

I fully agree. Sometimes it seems some folk are so focused on bragging rights with BR accuracy that they lose sight of the purpose of a hunting rifle. A 3/4 minute hunting rifle is fully capabile of all the needs and abilities of a hunter in the field. And that's under ideal conditions, which is rare in the woods and fields!

A Springfield or Mauser hunting action is still a fine choice for a hunter.
 
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