Choice between a SAKO or a Cooper

[alinwa]

First, what are some of the common things you call "bad follow through"?

Which bodypart? I'll go with the hands. Off hand, letting go of the joystick, relaxing the squeeze, dropping the shoulder..... Trigger hand, pulling thru, pulling sideways, finding my finger still on the trigger after the shot, with my HBR setups I get all sorts of bad habits because "done right" I tend to get a swollen knuckle..... I don't even know what's "bad" except that in one of my slumps I was getting odd fliers, I couldn't seem to get a handle on it. Someone a lot more experienced than me told me to check if I had enough overtravel slack...... I didn't. I fixed it. My problem disappeared. That time.

Second, if "it's incredibly easy to fire 1/4" groups with a good rifle, WHEN THE RANGE PERMITS IT" and you're "refer[ring] to 5-shot groups with an aggregate group being 25 shots, ALL holes counted," I guess I haven't been around any such range conditions. I'm interested in hearing your description of such conditions.

Can't do it..... I can't always recognize "good." Some days look exactly the same but shoot completely differently. Still days can be the worst, a good steady PNW rain is awesome, Christmas card snow can be good, if I had to bank on a condition on my range I'd say a right-to-left steady between 5 and ten mph is solid for testing.

Sometimes.

For me, I've got to shoot it.

Third, can you elaborate on "clocked barrels"? I'm not familiar with that term.

Clocked simply means I set the curve of the barrel where I want it.

Fourth, what are some of the common scope installation problems you see?

#1, Just bolting the stuff together.
#2, Buying the best stuff money can buy like billet rings and machined bases, and just bolting them all together.
#3, Buying a machined rail so it's "straight" and getting out the red loctite.... and just bolting it all together. With loctite no less, "so it stays together" LOL.

I will say at this juncture that Jerry Stiller makes a rail and pin system that I could ALMOST just bolt together and trust it...... but I still epoxy them down ...... And well centered. You point the barrel right when you install it and you don't need to boresight.

I dunno, it's next to impossible to list all the problems, I've just found and eliminated them over the years. I've owned a Hood Scope Checker for ten years....and have several picatinny standoffs. I used these before Charlie came out with his Davidson style one. I charge $135.00 to mount a scope. Worth every penny.

al

 

[Hunter]

I'll go with the hands. Off hand, letting go of the joystick

Well, I've never made that mistake -- don't have such a stick.

Clocked simply means I set the curve of the barrel where I want it.

I thought the barrel was supposed to be straight.

#2, Buying the best stuff money can buy like billet rings and machined bases, and just bolting them all together.
#3, Buying a machined rail so it's "straight" and getting out the red loctite.... and just bolting it all together. With loctite no less, "so it stays together"

Never made those mistakes either.

I charge $135.00 to mount a scope. Worth every penny.

Might be a while before I'm ready to jump on that -- thanks for the offer though.

 

[alinwa]

Wasn't an offer, it's a comment.

al

 

[drover]

Yep! Coopers don't shoot well at all.

This group is from my Cooper Classic in 222, and the group is typical of the way my others shoot, not bad for a lightweight sporter. No muss, no fuss, just open the box, mount a scope and start shooting. Since the original question pertained to a varmint rifle I think that rifles that group like this are adequate.

I have a model 21 Varminter in 6PPC and a model 22 Varminter in 6BR both of which will best these groups. Both are factory stock, no aftermarket triggers or stocks.

I could live with either the Sako or a Cooper, but as previously stated, I have come to prefer the Coopers. Why? Stock styling, ergonomics, factory support if needed (something you may not get on an older Sako now that Beretta owns Sako), and overall quality of wood fit and finish.

drover

 

[SGJennings]

You might be cheating yourself by subtracting .224. Shoot a single bullet somewhere on the paper, measure and subtract that amount. It could be less or more than .224. Yah, yah, yah. I know. You're supposed to measure center to center... I'm lazy.

 

[walkinhorseman]

Al, you are full of unmitigated bovine excrement. You run your mouth a lot but we're not seeing any groups posted here to support all of your noise. Eat my shorts. I've been to gunsmithschool too. Put up or shut up. Maybe your practice with triggers will get you the same fateas Fred Sinclair.

 

[markharp]

drover,

I know that I don't know you,,,,,,, but,,,,,,,first match of the year for me is in St. Louis next week. If I struggle on Saturday, would you be willing to FedEX that Cooper to me for Sunday?

Mark

PS. I had a Cooper in 22Khornet that would print like that in the calm. 40gr Sierra Blitz's over H110.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

I have a Cooper in 22 Fireball that shoots like that as well..........40 grain V-Max with 15 grains of Lil'Gun.

 

[drover]

The odd thing about this particular 222 is that it likes the Hornady V-Max so much, none of my other 22 caliber Coopers shoot the V-Max nearly well they prefer Berger and Sierra bullets.

In my 6PPC and 6BR I use Bergers 68 gr match and they work so well that I haven't tried anything else, although I suppose that someday I should try some true benchrest bullets in them.

drover

 

[alinwa]

Al, you are full of unmitigated bovine excrement. You run your mouth a lot but we're not seeing any groups posted here to support all of your noise. Eat my shorts. I've been to gunsmithschool too. Put up or shut up. Maybe your practice with triggers will get you the same fateas Fred Sinclair.

Stick around cowboy, maybe you'll learn something. If you can keep from choking on your own boot.

Piehole SHUT, ears OPEN, children are to be seen and not heard.

al

 

[alinwa]

You know, I shouldn't do this but I'm weak......ONE TIME horsewalker. I really wish you were a grownup because there's just so much to see in this picture


So I'll post it for others to see. There are hunnerds of shooters out there, people who actually pull triggers instead of humping keyboards..

I don't save groups. I useta' save targets in binders etc but I've streamlined. I leave targets downrange and just keep stapling layers on but this pic thru a scope is interesting if you're a shooter. This is the first time out with an experimental 6MM. This is an 1:8 Krieger chambered long using a 6BR 'fat butt' reamer, no data on this cartridge so I was starting from scratch, inna' hurry as always. I keep notes at the bench and sometimes on the target. As you can see this target has scribbles. I snapped the pic thru the scope because I didn't know if I could retrieve the paper and finish my notations.

That's why it exists..... it's not a bragging target it's just a chronological progression of charges and seating depth changes as I developed data on this new round. Still, even a non-shooter can see as it comes together with the last line of groups being five-shotters. No this isn't an agg and I apologize to all the competitive shooters out there for being goaded into this.

Also, to shooters who understand the significance of this, these are 108 grain 6mm bullets, VLD's, running at up to 3250. Obviously short range 308, PPC or BR groups wouldn't look this ragged........ but this isn't a PPC!!! This is a long range honker....


For horsey guy...... I don't have any real group pictures. You'll have to use your imagination.


Or I could go shoot some'


just for you


LOL


al

 

[TD-Max]

I have a Sako in .204 and have to say the thing shoots awesone. Mine has the single set trigger that breaks about 9oz when set. The main I have at about 2.5#. Been contemplating adding another Sako or trying a Cooper myself, but I just can't get past the set trigger. I absolutely love it.

 

[ehparis]

I once owned one of the lightweight Kimber models. I have several Kimber 1911s and thought I might find some quality in their rifle line as well.

It was a beautiful gun that only weight around 7 1/2 lbs. with scope attached. Unfortunately that pretty lightweight stock warped or had such bad bedding that I was lucky to get 3 inch groups with it. A friend owns one of their varmint models in .22-250 but couldn't get it to shoot until he rebarrelled it.

If you're interested in "only accurate rifles are interesting" I'd avoid the Kimber. The stability of their stocks seems open to question and the barrels are known for any thing resembling accuracy.