Carbon ring removal research opportunity

B

Boyd Allen

Active member
I just borescoped a barrel that was cleaned without brushing (this time) after about 30 rounds had been fired with 133. It is clean except at the front edge of the angled section that is the transition between the neck portion of the chamber and the short freebore. Everything in front of, and behind that area looks fine. I did this cleaning with Patchout, and Accelerator, dried the barrel thoroughly, and wet it with BBS and left that in for a half hour, before patching that dry. There was no sign of copper on the patches. At the end of the shooting session, I had finalized a retune of the barrel with out the tuner that had previously been on it, and with the Deresonator moved to within 3/4" from the muzzle. At the end of my retune, it was shooting a dot, despite the number of rounds that had been fired.

I know that there is more than one approach to getting rid of this ring of fouling. What I am contemplating is which one will have the least effect on the throat, after a number of repetitions, and that is the reason for this post.

Recently I read an account of one fellow's use of a short section of cleaning rod, powered by a cordless screwdriver, using .30 cal. bronze brush, spun for 30 seconds. There is also Tony Boyer's old method that involves filling an over sized (6.5?) nylon brush with IOSSO and doing the same thing for less time manually. I have also considered wrapping a 6mm brush with an oiled patch that slightly overhangs the front of the brush, and applying IOSSO to the patch right where the brush ends, and spinning that by hand. Do any of you have any other methods that you like, that I have not mentioned?
Thanks,
Boyd
 
Boyd,
I have found that "Bore Tech, C4 Carbon Remover" works well to remove that carbon ring. I wrap a patch around a bronze brush, soak it with the C4 then rotate BY HAND, let soak a bit then repeat 'till the carbon is gone. It's kinder & gentler on the barrel, no abrasives involved.

Dick
 
I knew it! I knew it. I'm going to have to buy another bottle to add to my collection.....but if, as you say, it works without abrasives, as easy as you described, it will be worth it. Thanks
 
Orrrrrrr

get one of the quick hand trimmers and keep your brass trimmed after each and every firing like I do and not worry about it. If your brass stays the same length it does not matter as far as i am concerned.....
 
Possible false alarm...I assumed that because it was not removed when everything else was, that the ring was hard carbon. It may not have been. I need to get some barrels out of the drawer and check them out and try this. All I did was put a new 6.5 bronze brush on a piece of cleaning rod, and used my cheap cordless drill to spin it in the front of the chamber for about 10 sec. It's gone. Perhaps what I was looking at was something that a normal patch would not properly reach because of the geometry of where it was....or I have found the magic cure ;-) (just kidding)
Boyd
 
I'm thinking..

That...if you removed it in 10 seconds it either was a bunch of black stuff or VERY LITTLE hard carbon. I don't really know what I'm talking about but I've tried scrubbing out hard carbon and it ain't easy.....that easy. However, the plain truth of the matter is that you shouldn't let carbon build anywhere....I suppose. I've never been one to worry over that kind if stuff but I noticed Tony somewhat meticulously cleaning the carbon from his rifle and that got my attention. Then, I saw him doing some stuff that I knew wasn't worth doing and just added carbon cleaning to THAT list. I still don't know that it's harmful or not.

Didn't look to make sure...did I spell meticulously right?

_________________________________________________________

Added - I had to go look up "detritus" so I checked the above and it's good.
 
Last edited:
Boyd, that could be the case. there was a prone rifle built here in Australia variously called the Sportco, Omark & then MAB, depending on company ownership at the time. It was designed with a barrel with integral lugs & a floating bolt head allowing the action body to be of unhardened steel. As a consequence, after a time & a tad of wear it had weak primary extraction & cases would often stick. A solution was to spin a .45 bronze brush in the .308 chamber & break out the build up at the junction of the body & shoulder which caused the case to adhere. We figured that wiping out the chamber with cloth wound around a jag actually pushed powder detritus into that joint rather than clearing it.
 
CTC or Diichloromethane

I think I have mentioned this in previous posts on the same subject. I wet a suitable size patch with CTC or Dichloromethane. About two applications or two minutes work and the hard carbon ring is gone. These compounds are actually solvents for carbon. They don't just loosen it. Do it outside as you don't want to breath the fumes in.
Andy.
 
Carbon doesn't dissolve in ANYTHING (Google it). The black stuff we see is more of an ash, made up of primer residue, partially burnt, un-sublimated nitrocellulose, and complex compounds left behind from burning deterrents, and some carbon.

There is no easy way to wash it out.

I use a spinning, over sized brush on a brass rod, with a 1/4" drill
 
Last edited:
I stopped seeing a carbon ring. When one of 2 things happened. Maybe 3.
I bought a bore scope, I started using Patch out at home, I switched to LT-32, or maybe a combination of all the above.
Oh, and started to dry the chamber with just a mop. No patch. I found the mop and patch did not dry the chamber. Clean mop with brake cleaner. That's where the bore scope came in.
I think the carbon ring is left over cleaner(wet chamber), carbon, powder, etc. It is a build up. Only gets dried out on fouler shot. I also noticed my fouler and sighter were closer together.
Clean Patch out over night. I don't bore scope till next day.
Maybe switching from N133 had something to do here. Not sure.

Bore scope might have already paid for itself.
2 weeks ago. I was not shooting real good. Or any good. 4 and one stuff. 2 day tournament. Sunday morning had hard bolt lift. Groups really opened up. Next time I cleaned at home with the patch out and checked bore found 2 lands had heavy fire cracker. Down the sides of the land. Grooves had light alligator.
So instead of wasting components on figuring out the problem. Time for a new barrel. :D
 
Boyd man in the 38+ years that i have bin in the automotive business i have seen many salesmen come and go in and out of our shop trying to sell us there products. I work for the Ford motor company in my town. One of the biggest problems that our diesel mechanics have is carbon buildup in the motors. About six months ago a sales person walked into our shop with a product that he claimed would remove carbon build up like no other. The shop manager gave him a chance to demonstrate his products. I asked him to demonstrate his product against other top engine carbon removers ,and he did. I have seen many seminars by just about every product co ever made, but this one was different. We gave him some of the worst carbon build up parts we had and he used the other name brand carbon removers first before using his own brand. The other brands that he used removed somewhat of the carbon but not enough to make a big deal. Then he opened a can of his cleaner and used it on the other parts that where stuck with carbon,i have seen many demos before but none like this stuff, this liquid carbon remover knocked the carbon right out of the steel parts like nothing i have ever seen. He then used the other parts that had carbon build up that the other cleaners would not clean and had them cleaned in about 5 minutes. I am not trying to sell anything her, but what i would like to ask you boyd man is would you like me to send you a can of this cleaner so you can try it out? i dont have a borescope so i would not know how well it would work on a barrel. If you want i can shipp it to you just give me your address. Who knows maybe it will work just as good on a barrel as it does on an engine. I wont say what the product is untel you try it out ,if you want.
Gabe
 
Of course I would like to try it. I will PM you my address. If this works, you will have made the company that makes it, and a lot of shooters very happy. Thanks for getting in touch on this.
Boyd
 
Well, yeahh..... what is it? I don't get carbon buildup in my barrels but would like something to wipe casenecks clean.
 
How can U hold out on these readers?
What is the NAME of the magical carbon removal compound?
Just not fair! :)
 
Not mine it doesn't. Must be a technique thing. Yes I have a neck mic, that reads to .0001, and I know how to use it, and I have been doing it that way for many a year. I don't polish the brass, I just knock down the fouling so that it does not build up, form shot to shot.
 
How about telling us the name of this cleaner?

gabe ledesma said:
Boyd man in the 38+ years that i have bin in the automotive business i have seen many salesmen come and go in and out of our shop trying to sell us there products. I work for the Ford motor company in my town. One of the biggest problems that our diesel mechanics have is carbon buildup in the motors. About six months ago a sales person walked into our shop with a product that he claimed would remove carbon build up like no other. The shop manager gave him a chance to demonstrate his products. I asked him to demonstrate his product against other top engine carbon removers ,and he did. I have seen many seminars by just about every product co ever made, but this one was different. We gave him some of the worst carbon build up parts we had and he used the other name brand carbon removers first before using his own brand. The other brands that he used removed somewhat of the carbon but not enough to make a big deal. Then he opened a can of his cleaner and used it on the other parts that where stuck with carbon,i have seen many demos before but none like this stuff, this liquid carbon remover knocked the carbon right out of the steel parts like nothing i have ever seen. He then used the other parts that had carbon build up that the other cleaners would not clean and had them cleaned in about 5 minutes. I am not trying to sell anything her, but what i would like to ask you boyd man is would you like me to send you a can of this cleaner so you can try it out? i dont have a borescope so i would not know how well it would work on a barrel. If you want i can shipp it to you just give me your address. Who knows maybe it will work just as good on a barrel as it does on an engine. I wont say what the product is untel you try it out ,if you want.
Gabe
Click to expand...

I t surely would be a boon to most of the shooting activities I know of. Carbon control is a very big item.

Thanks,

Pete
 
JRB said:
Can you tell us more?
I have spun cases with the power driver and 0000 wool and can not measure any change?
Jim
Click to expand...

What's to tell? It thins them.

If you only reload your cases 10-20 times you'll probably never notice it, but I reload cases 50-100 times.

I know people who "clean" their pool cues with 1500-2000 grit sandpaper too, claim it doesn't wear them out..... and I know pros who say "I can't wait until this shaft gets down to 12.5mm"

I also don't own a ball mic and don't trust anyone who claims to "measure" necks using one :)

al-everthecontrarian-inwa
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top