Can you wearout a seating die?

[Arrowmaker]

I have a Redding competion seating die that has loaded close to 8000 rounds of .308. The "micrometer" has been run a lot. It has been cleaned and lubricated regularly since 1998. The loaded rounds are showing .005" difference in seating length with measured bullets. Is it worn out or is there somehting else that I should check?

Arrowmaker

 

[Bob Dodd]

Die

Yes, I've used up 5 or 6 in the last 30 years. Hand dies of course. Your Bullets could be .005 different.

 

[Arrowmaker]

Wornout die Part 2

I measure from the Ogive with a sinclair comparitor. I sort bullets by bearing surface length first then load my rounds. I had not thought about that much variation in the bullets. Next barrel I intend to get a barrle stub and build a couple of measureing tools form them. One will be a Ogive measureing tool, or am I off my rocker?

Any sugestions?

Arrowmaker

 

[mike in co]

sorta depends on the bullet shape. some have had issues wiht the bullet fit to the actual seater..it expands under lagre load..as in compressing powder.
you might try just replacing just the seating pc...not the whole die.
other than that what else is moving ??
neck tension ?
how flat is the base of the case?
mike in co

 

[alinwa]

I have a Redding competion seating die that has loaded close to 8000 rounds of .308. The "micrometer" has been run a lot. It has been cleaned and lubricated regularly since 1998. The loaded rounds are showing .005" difference in seating length with measured bullets. Is it worn out or is there somehting else that I should check?

Arrowmaker

Arrowmaker,

I don't see how it can "wear out" such that your seating depth becomes inconsistent.

A lot of things can affect seating depth but IMO it's not the die.

al

Bob Dodd,

How did yours wear out? what went bad?

al

 

[Butch Lambert]

I made my own stem that catches further down on the bullet and it is more consistent than a factory stem.
Butch

 

[Arrowmaker]

Wornout die part 3

All the brass is once fired which means nothing for how flat the base of the case is. I dont know, never measured it. As for neck tension this may be the culprit as none are neck turned. Would neck tension effect the way the bullet is seated that much? (I am new to most of this)

Arrowmaker

 

[Don]

I have a Redding competion seating die that has loaded close to 8000 rounds of .308. The "micrometer" has been run a lot. It has been cleaned and lubricated regularly since 1998. The loaded rounds are showing .005" difference in seating length with measured bullets. Is it worn out or is there somehting else that I should check?

Arrowmaker

8,000 rounds, the die is just barely broken in............top BR competitors living in temperate regions that can shoot all year round can fire between 8-10k rounds per year in practice, tuning, and tournament sessions. Their seating dies may last for decades.

Something else is most likely going on.............Don

 

[trouble]

Anything can be worn out.

 

[Big Al]

Of course the length of the brass has no bearing on the die? As has been said before the length of the bullet has to be known to the ogive. All of this means nothing until you check all the variables and check and calibrate your measuring tools.

 

[Wilbur]

Something's missing here..

Oh yeah...I know what it is...It's my persistent comment that you can fix anything and everything that you think is broke with your seater die and your aggs won't improve.

 

[Pete Wass]

And something else

Oh yeah...I know what it is...It's my persistent comment that you can fix anything and everything that you think is broke with your seater die and your aggs won't improve.

that way too many people miss is this issue with irregular bullets. In this case, a person't seater die CAN remedy SOME of their problems IF they are paying attention. There are darn few perfect bullets. Generally, enough of them are "Close Enough" but then there are those few that aren't. And one will wonder jeez, why is that one way out there or dowm there or up there. Must be somethig I done! Tis. Tis the in-attention to the detail of making sure the bullets one is loading are as near to being the same as possible. That, is in the complete control of the Nut behind the Bolt.

 

[Wilbur]

We'll always disagree...

I'm saying "that one way out there or dowm there or up there" will continue no matter what one does with the seater die. Seating depth is a change worth making but any other bother in terms of measured consistency is a waste of time.

 

[Boyd Allen]

Do you have data on this sort of variance when the die was new?

 

[Arrowmaker]

"Wornout" die

After some experiments and the guidance of a real engineer, the following was discovered:
1. Using a "bore scope" and a coordinate measureing machine we determined that the die may be worn but is showing no signs of wear being the cause of the difference inseating depth. Strightness of the loaded round yes, but not seating depth.
2. Using a force gauge and neck turned brass (turned to .0006" on a very precise lathe) we deterinmed that SOME of the differnce in seating deepth was due to the variance in neck tension.
3. By sorting through 250 bullets we found a sample group that were as idenitcal as we could measure (diameter, length of bearing surface, doughtnut at the base ogive etc.) I seated twenty bullets with less than .001" of differnce in seating depth.
4. By switching to a custom bullet (name withheld at the request of the maker, not any one of the popular custom makers however) and seating random bullets in to the neck turned cases we had less than .002" of difference.

So the die wasnt worn out and, as my engineer buddy said: "If you would buy better bullets you wouldn't need my lab on a weekend when we could be shooting."

Thanks every one, the quest for accuracy never stops.

Arrowmaker

 

[Pete Wass]

The greatr thing about America

I'm saying "that one way out there or dowm there or up there" will continue no matter what one does with the seater die. Seating depth is a change worth making but any other bother in terms of measured consistency is a waste of time.

Is the variation of opinions and the right all of us have to believe in what we do. I go under the theory that is is impossible to make ammo that is TOO GOOD. If any of you have ever used exact seating depth to determine accuracy you know that as little as .001 can change the shape and size of a group. I leave the rest of it up to you to decide how small you want your holes to be.