can someone with some patience help a newbie to RFBR shooting?

King,

I don't know who you are. Based on what you have said, I've placed you shooting with the shooters around the Ashland, KY and/or SE OH area. Some people fish to see who bites. I may have done it a few times myself. You could be a very accomplished shooter and just wanting to see what someone will say. However, I now take you at your word. I'll address some of the things that you mention the best I can.

1. The problem was getting setup. I had plenty of time to shoot. But trying to get set in an unfamiliar bench with only a few boards and a sandbag was just not going to happen. My stool was too tall for one thing. I couldn't get down to the level of my rifle.

Personally, this would cause me major issues as well. You need a stool and a rest. But, I will say don't spend a lot of money until you know this is something you want to do. Most people have spares and will be glad to loan them to you.

2. I thought I made it clear I didn't expect to win anything. I just didn't like shooting so much worse than I normally shoot. BTW I was using CCI SV ammo. My rifle likes it. I have Wolf MT and ME and SK Jagd in my ammo box but the CCI does very well in my Savage.

I didn't mean to indicate that you expected to win but maybe I did. Again don't buy anything until you like it, but you'll probably max out somewhere around 1600, maybe 1700 if you do everything perfect. I would worry about everybody's score but use that as a barometer based on equipment and ammo.

3. Well I didn't buy it for BR shooting. I just used it because it was the most powerful scope I had. I have better quality scopes but they are even more underpowered. Can you suggest a power rating that is enough and maybe a good scope in that power range?

Understood. Also understood you had a higher quality scope with less magnification. Depending on how it is set up and your eyes you may do well with it. But in general, you're underpowered and most Simmons I have seen have coarse crosshairs. You can't hit a small target when you can't really tell where you're aiming. I would suggest no less that 36 power. Look in the classified for maybe a good deal on a Weaver (there was one for $275 with a lock on it a few days ago, the lock won't hurt it and you can always sell it. Older Leupolds will almost always go for $500 or better so if you want to spend that, you will get your money back, it's just like borrowing the scope for a while) Fine Crosshair or dot is up to you, but I would look at both.

4. I'm not quite sure about the terminology you use but I often hit right in the center of the numbers. I don't do that every time but I do it often enough that it isn't a fluke. I'd say I can do that about 1/3 of the time or more. With the Shoot-N-C targets the whole number disappears but I look at the targets up close and I see where I hit. I included a sample of the groups I shoot at home. These are average size groups for me I guess. They aren't world beating groups but they're better than what I did at the shoot.

Hitting the center would be taking it out, like taking the dot out (worst edge). Barely hitting the number would be just hitting it (best edge). I know you probably like those Shoot-N-C targets and that's fine. But try shooting a black (copy) of an ARA target then an actual (blue) target. Notice how much the target messes with you just because it's different and only by color.



5. I can't agree there. The grass I was shooting was at best 1/4" wide.

Like I said, couldn't get it to come up, but you probably have close to a 3/4" corridor that will knock the blade over.

As far as equipment, you can get all kinds of suggestions. Go out and see what you like and go from there. Hope you stick with it.
 
I tried to get a look at what others were using. But remember this was a stock rifle shoot. Nothing is allowed that doesn't come with the gun. I did notice at least one other Savage there and I tried to get a look at what others were shooting but to be honest things were moving so fast I didn't have time to catch anyone and ask them what they were shooting and I sure didn't want to even get close enough to their guns to see exactly what they were. I was new there and I didn't want to think I might mess with their gun in some way. The people were very nice and I know I could have got great advice on what guns they were shooting but there were a lot of people there and things were kinda confused. I believe they had more people than they had ever had before likely because it was the day before Thanksgiving and more people were free to come out and shoot. I did notice that the scopes were much stronger than what I was using. Unfortunately I didn't get to check the shim I put on my scope base last night yet. I probably won't get to shoot tomorrow either. But I'll find out if I can at least get it to adjust correctly or close to it. To give you an idea how far off my scope was I had to aim at the target above the one I wanted to hit to get it in the right area. You can imagine that didn't work out too well.

I do have rests that I use at home btw. I use a front rest but haven't started using a rear rest. I have just been shooting for my own enjoyment. That's how everyone else was shooting at the match I believe. I think it might have been a rule for this stock gun shoot but like I said things were kinda hectic so I didn't even get filled in on the rules.

I know I learned some things. And despite what you think Steve B. I didn't do so bad. I had several shots in the inner circle but most of them touched the ring so I didn't get the 100 points for those shots. I've never claimed my Savage would shoot with top dollar guns despite what you just said here. But it does shoot very well despite what you think. Again I've shot a .122 group with it and all those shots were in the bullseye. I often shoot sub .25 groups at 50 yards which is not bad in anyone's book. Your comments are getting more and more confrontational and again you are insinuating that what I have said isn't true. I can guess that you're one of those who claimed what people said wasn't true. I can also guess that you don't shoot nearly as well as you would like. Just because you were humbled it doesn't mean I will be. I told you I had serious problems at that shoot but you must have missed that part. But I'm not going to argue with you. You're not worth the time of day. These other people have been good enough to help me. I'll just add you to my ignore list and I won't have to listen to you. I'll just add that I can shoot very well with my Savage despite what you think. You saw the groups I posted in this thread. I've shot thousands of groups like that. But you won't believe that or anything else it seems. So nothing else is left to say to you except goodbye.

The target I shot was an ARA target AFAIK Fred. It had 25 targets plus 5 practice targets at the top and bottom. The top left practice target showed how the scoring works. I shot a 650.

The advice I got here is very useful (excluding Steve of course). I know a big part of my problem was not being setup to shoot from a benchrest like the ones they had. I did learn some things like I need a shorter seat. I can see where shooting benchrest it would be better not to have a cheek weld. I know true BR shooters use support both front and rear. I'm curious though how you get a fixed position to look through a scope without an anchor point?

Someone was nice enough to suggest a good scope. That would leave me with about $850 for a gun at this point. I'd like to stick with a stock gun for now so I can shoot in the same event I shot in last week. I've been thinking about a Cooper if I can afford one. It might be better to go ahead and put all of my $1200 in a gun at this point and concentrate on getting a scope a little later. I have decent scopes that just aren't powerful enough I guess. I'm going to have to sell some guns to get the money for a good rimfire too so this won't happen quick. I might be able to sell some guns before Christmas if I get started.

Thanks again for any and all help.

I'm trying to address all the help I'm getting here but I could end up with 5 page posts if I do it all at once. I really do appreciate the help.

I'm the real deal Beau and you are right about my area. I will address the things you have said shortly.
 
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King,

You didn't say this was a stock rifle shoot, or if you did I missed it. Your only problems were probably rest, ammo, and scope. Other than that you should be competitive. I know that sounds a little sarcastic, but it's not. That's just how close you probably are.
 
buy a Suhl rifle, they shoot very well, have a good trigger, just add a good weaver scope you are off and running.


Semper fi
pickles

ps: don't forget front rest, rear bag and wind flags.
 
I agree with Beau, rest, ammo and scope, and of course let's add a shorter stool.
A good rear bag is as important as a front rest. I remember when I started BR shooting I had no idea what to buy. I had a little $ but no direction, so I bought what I saw in magazines. I bought a Protecter leather rear bag. It was ok. Steve Lawson was nice enough to loan me his Edgewood rear bag and I figured it was worth 2 points a target to me over the other rest. I ordered up two Edgewood rear bags, one 3-1/4" tall and one 4-1/4" for a range we shoot that was a tad dowh hill.

I've never cared much for "stock gun" matches of any sort. Most I've seen were rigged one way or another for the guy who thought up the idea. But, that's another thread in itself.
 
king g the civilian marksmanship program has a kimber 82g delivered to your door for $622.95 with a set of bkl rings $20.50 a weaver 36t delivered from killough shooting sports $375 or a used scope you can compete at the club level and have a set of peep sights to shoot the a-23/5 target with. that kimber is in the ballpark with most 52's out there an excellent entry level that can be shot bench or 3 posistion.
 
Not just a shorter stool...

...an adjustable stool. Stool height is a big deal. Not an expensive deal but a big deal nonetheless.
 
some research

i just Checked the 2009 ARA Nationals equipment list, 110 shooters used

Turbo actions = 40
40x actions = 23, over half the field used these two,no savage, no Marlin, no ruger, no kimber 82 g no czs
suhl action = 12 this may be the one to start with if your pinching pennies

jewel triggers = 84, suhl already has a great trigger
barrels..42 shillen, broughton 25, benchmark 23
stocks...55 mcmillen, half the field
scopes, leupold 42..38 weaver, best value for the money
AMMO....only 8 used lapua, ALL the rest used ELEY

if your hot to get or build a dedicated benchrest rifle this research may help..good luck and don't shoot
when the wind makes your eyes water:D
 
Stock rifle matches have major drawbacks. I would use an Anschutz 1913 probably or maybe an older 40X. Still stock.
 
of the tens of thousands of shooters that participate at their clubs only 200 or less ever reach the nationals. the last time I looked turbo's are not stocked rifle. the 82g with a simple trigger modification is the most accurate rifle out there in the stock rifle class he would be shooting in. including all 64 actions and some 54 action rifles.
 
shoot my kimber classic, of new york before you say the 82g is the most accurate out there:)
 
king g take an allen and back the front lug off a turn or more and see if that doesn't give more adjustment to the scope, mine is barely tight maybe around 10lbs. in addition take the swivel studs off they only impede recoil. some guys completley remove the barrel lug and adjust the action screw for improved accuracy. that rifle may not shoot 2400's but should shoot way better than 650. what rings are on the scope? sounds like the front needs a few thousands lapped from the bottom. sometimes that front lug screw pulls the barrel down and place tourqe on the action.
 
DSCN0947.jpg gambler maybe that's easier to see. shot over 10 targets of 250 with that. Jack Igou shot that this summer and promptly shot a 250 he told me he thinks that is the most accurate kimber factory rifle ever made! and I aggree with him.:D
 
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I've been aware of the fact that the Savage is known for having problems with lugs that are tight. I use a torque wrench to tighten them and not a new style torque wrench at that. The older styles (pointer etc.) adjust down to lighter pressures and that is what I use. I keep the torque down to less than 10 ft. lbs. and more like 8 ft. lbs..

The list of rifles are a big help. I guess I'm trying to keep myself in the lower category to find out just how much I like the sport without spending my kid's inheritance. You people have certainly been helpful in many ways and I do appreciate it.

I do know about contests that are rigged so that certain people get all the wins. My brother went through that with an archery course where they were shooting all sorts of shots up and downhill and at different ranges. He had almost all of his shots disqualified for one reason or another. He went from first place to last place. Needless to say he never went back. But I've seen no reason to think the shoot I went to was set up like that.
 
I doubt it was set up like that. But stock matches, with the only rule that the rifle be stock, inherently lacks parity. For instance a guy could have a really hot shooting (in his opinion) 10/22 ( and yes I know we use the 10/22 as an example too often) and he sees a flyer for a stock match. He shows up, and people have Anschutz 1913's, 40x's or other stock guns. Who wins and who walks away disillusioned? The idea is to prevent an equipment race and give everybody an equal chance. Level the playing field so to speak. There is no level playing field.
 
king g try keeping the rear slightly tighter, that's a synthetic stock and 25 to 30 lbs on the back with less on the lug allow the barrel to come up a few degrees and at 50 yards that can give some adjustment back to the scope. on any scope and I have some bsa scopes I try to keep them opticly centered, most of my rings are lapped, when you stress any scope they are not reliable. both of my savages liked higher speeds and shot eley club well, the chambers are a little rough and slugging the barrels they are far looser than even my mossbergs, and that makes them even more ammo picky. that is probably a pro hunter scope and not ideal for target shooting, I haven't been to a lot of shoots but the ones I have the scorers were very thorough and all targets were displayed for every shooter. I would not want the job of scoring.
 
gambler, can your classic of ny shoot like this kimber? you should shoot my rifles.;)
 
Can't like it or even see it

It's rare that benchrest shooting without good equipment and a good shooting rifle is enjoyed. Further, you can't see the game as it is without a good rifle. "Good rifle" is subjective but a rifle that is even remotely capable of a 700 ARA score will prevent any visualization of benchrest shooting as it is today.

One solution, rather than buy, is to shoot a borrowed rifle, rest, etc.. Folks will gladly loan these items for the short term. I don't think I've ever met a benchrest shooter that wouldn't give you their shirt. Good ammo comes hard, but not the shirt. Some folks don't like to borrow stuff but if you're not one of them, and are hesitant to ask, I'll make the call for you.
 
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