Can anyone here use Quickload??

A

alinwa

oft dis'd member
For 15 yrs I've been shooting my iteration of the 6X47L ( https://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58805-Al-s-6x47L ) using Lapua small primer/small flashhole cases

This is my successful iteration of an 80,000psi "PPC Style" midrange cartridge and is a real hotrod in that it will cruise a 105/108gr 6MM @ 3200 with endless caselife

But I'm currently exploring a new-to-me case which easily surpasses the Lapua case by pushing the 105's to 3600 with endless caselife.....IN THE SAME GUN

I stopped my testing workup at 3600fps today not because of any case issues, but because pressures have got to to be exceeding 100,000psi

The case is full to crunch using a slow roll from a scale pan funnel but I can probably use a droptube to get a couple more grains in......

"DAsher-sized" case.
46gr RL17 w/105 Berger
Federal GG210M
velocity 3600fps



In short, this is a shortened .308, .473 casehead running 25% higher pressure than the hottest 6PPC



If someone would be kind enough to run these numbers It would be very helpful as my next step is to explore exactly how much pressure the Kelbly Atlas can handle
 
I would be happy to run your data in Quickload, but I don't have enough info on the case. Since your case is not listed Quickload, I will have to find one that is close is dimension and internal capacity. I looked at your reamer diagram it the dimensions and found these cartridges and internal capacity in grains of water :
6BR Norma 37.8
6BR Rem 37.8
6mm Dasher 41.0

Which of these cases is closest in capacity to yours? If I know that I can use the closest one to give you a decent approximation.

Also, which 105gr Berger are you using. There are several and they all give different results because of the different bearing surface lengths of the bullets.

I shoot a 6BR Norma with 107gr Sierra MK using 31.1gr Varget for an MV of 2950fps at about 65000 psi.

David
 
DavidS said:
I would be happy to run your data in Quickload, but I don't have enough info on the case. Since your case is not listed Quickload, I will have to find one that is close is dimension and internal capacity. I looked at your reamer diagram it the dimensions and found these cartridges and internal capacity in grains of water :
6BR Norma 37.8
6BR Rem 37.8
6mm Dasher 41.0

Which of these cases is closest in capacity to yours? If I know that I can use the closest one to give you a decent approximation.

Also, which 105gr Berger are you using. There are several and they all give different results because of the different bearing surface lengths of the bullets.

I shoot a 6BR Norma with 107gr Sierra MK using 31.1gr Varget for an MV of 2950fps at about 65000 psi.

David
Click to expand...

That would be wonderful :)

The closest thing you've listed is the Dasher @ 41gr but I'm very familiar with the 6BR

With this case I can run your setup up to 3500fps so please rum those numbers..... just increase the velocity from your 2950fps to 3500fps
 
alinwa said:
That would be wonderful :)

The closest thing you've listed is the Dasher @ 41gr but I'm very familiar with the 6BR

With this case I can run your setup up to 3500fps so please rum those numbers..... just increase the velocity from your 2950fps to 3500fps
Click to expand...


OK

Quickload is just a theoretical prediction.


With Quickload, I am not able to specify which primer, so I assume this data is based on using small rifle primers.

6BR Norma,
.243, 105gr Berger BTHP #24428,
Loaded length 2.44",
barrel length 26",
40.64gr RL-17,
MV 3500fps
Pressure 113,000 PSI

6mm Dasher, everything the same except the cartridge and powder at 3500fps, Quickload predicts:
41.41gr RL-17
Pressure 97,000 PSI

I included this data on the Dasher so you would have a range if internal case volume to work with.

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME.

If I stuck with Varget like I use in my 6BR, to increase the MV to 3500, Quickload predicts I would have pressure in the range of 135,000 PSI

If I don't hear back from you about your test results, I'll know what happened. :)

David
 
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i will add i just started using rl17 in a 6.5 gt ( 6gt necked up)( bigger than a dasher, smaller than 6.5x47)
al if you are using this case
wimpy me with a 130 jlk vld with bullet body above the shoulder junction
40.2 is a mere 3040
 
6S5m8Ey.png
 
Ohh the tests are run :)

This isn't some daydream, it's up and running.

The results are in..... the proof is in the can and will be debuting on my youtube channel in the fall. I just ordered $786.00 worth of brass and will be making a match set of cases soon

And to alla' you'se knee-jerk reactors, please take the time to actually model the problem. Someone explain to me just how a 6X47L case running 100,000psi stresses the compononts more than a blowed out 338 Lapua Mag case at 65,000 ..... which the action is designed for with the swap of a bolt. There aren't any mis-designed fake numbers in play like there is in the recent Serbu failure. The Serbu failed (and WILL FAIL AGAIN!!!) because it's MADE WRONG, it blew sky-high at 45,000psi when a casehead ruptured and let the psi monster loose.....This is a Kelbly and unless I'm missing something is perfectly safe.

This particular setup, 'The Thing', is competitive at 100/200 and at 600 or 1000 with a simple bolt swap and bbl change

Worry if ya's want but this is what I DO. The world would be a boring place without innovation

This could be my generation's PPC

Everyone told them THAT would blow up too....

David, THANK YOU!! You've perfectly validated my suppositions.

Good On Ya!

al
 
And BTW just to be clear..,..... I'm only using RL17 to. use it up. My experiment is not quote running hot, it's not pushing any parameters, it's not some secret powder, I can easily do the same thing with h4350 but I've only got 20 30 lb left. I used rl17 just to use up a few pounds. I am testing a new case against existing technology. In other words I am simply using a known quantity cartridge as a baseline so that I can test the new case which has plenty wrong with it but it came out 3 years ago as a high pressure case. My testing is showing that it truly is a new paradigm
 
Stainless case heads, 'ala the Sig 277 Fury, have been around for a while. In the '90's, I bought some with 'universal' 30-06 brass.

Good shootin' -Al
 
Al Nyhus said:
Stainless case heads, 'ala the Sig 277 Fury, have been around for a while. In the '90's, I bought some with 'universal' 30-06 brass.

Good shootin' -Al
Click to expand...

These are the Fury cases. They debuted in 2019 AFAIK, I believe the interface is different from the old stuff.

I sectioned a case, examined the interface, made some cases and promptly ran my known-quantity rifle up to terrific pressures. I have no idea what the top end of the case is but I stopped out of caution.
 
alinwa said:
These are the Fury cases. They debuted in 2019 AFAIK, I believe the interface is different from the old stuff.

I sectioned a case, examined the interface, made some cases and promptly ran my known-quantity rifle up to terrific pressures. I have no idea what the top end of the case is but I stopped out of caution.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah...there's night and day between the old steel case heads and the Sig things.

alinwa said:
This particular setup, 'The Thing', is competitive at 100/200 and at 600 or 1000 with a simple bolt swap and bbl change.
Click to expand...

What's your tournament schedule this season for the new creation?

Good shootin' -Al
 
Al Nyhus said:
What's your tournament schedule this season for the new creation?

Good shootin' -Al
Click to expand...

I have no idea whether or not it'll be competitive...... This is specifically why I've modified the cases to shoot in platforms which ARE competitive. In fact this is what I'm doing now, with poor results so far. I may have jumped the gun in buying 10 boxes of loaded rounds to get competition cases LOL!
 
The case is only part of the equation...

Have you calculated hoop stress and how much the actual bbl and other components stretch under that much pressure? Yes, keeping it contained in the weakest link is paramount but unless you KNOW those numbers, it seems pretty sketchy. Keep em in the ten ring or at least the parts. Lol...Oh, and video everything. LOL!
 
mwezell said:
Have you calculated hoop stress and how much the actual bbl and other components stretch under that much pressure? Yes, keeping it contained in the weakest link is paramount but unless you KNOW those numbers, it seems pretty sketchy. Keep em in the ten ring or at least the parts. Lol...Oh, and video everything. LOL!
Click to expand...

Everything is scrupulously videotaped in fronta' God-N-ever'body...... and scheduled to be shown on my channel with lots of my other foolishness :)

"Warts, Feathers -n- All, Me"

At this point this case iterated as a 6X47L is making wikkid velocity and wretched accuracy. At my normal match pressures and velocity it's still terrible. I've shelved this phase of the project and have turned it down another road entire with this case. 6lb sheep/goat rifle probably They're a thing here. One of the guys I've built for has record book Grand Slams including a World Record ram. 70-something and still scaling the bald stuff up where the trees cain't breathe. He doesn't know it yet but he might find out soon he NEEDS a 277 GoatGun LOL

(big curly sheeps look good in the Game Room....goats, not so much)

iMO

Yes, I'm the Original Safety Geek.....don't mean I have to drive the speed limit. I also have a track in my back yard and 9 Quads including 5 250R's in various stages of lunacy.... they ain't carboned up.

This pertickler experiment is over for now but got plendy more in the pipe. Meantime my suppressed 600yd Elk Rifle project is a blinding success. Nothing else like it on the planet. Be shooting and documenting 50BMG's this week....preparing myself for the obligatory Ten Days of Pain....
 
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adamsgt said:
Al, would the Pressure Trace system be of any help in this kind of development?
Click to expand...
It probably would. I've no experience with the Pressure Trace system. I've got Oehler 43 equipment including strain gauges which may be similar but I've also got two sons who're working engineers and in modeling we can't see a problem. "Hoop Stress" analyses are generally applied more to thinwall applications so analysis is tricky but best as we can tell there's really no problem @ 100,000psi using a .473 casehead in an 1.35 action ring.
 
alinwa said:
It probably would. I've no experience with the Pressure Trace system. I've got Oehler 43 equipment including strain gauges which may be similar but I've also got two sons who're working engineers and in modeling we can't see a problem. "Hoop Stress" analyses are generally applied more to thinwall applications so analysis is tricky but best as we can tell there's really no problem @ 100,000psi using a .473 casehead in an 1.35 action ring.
Click to expand...

We use LabView with Kistler 6215 and 6213 piezo electric gages in both a midcase and case mouth location with a universal receiver. Using the new SIG cases we have only been able to get to around 83,000psi before we get case ruptures or other failures. I would calibrate your strain gages with a reference load of proven pressures.
 
MilGunsmith said:
We use LabView with Kistler 6215 and 6213 piezo electric gages in both a midcase and case mouth location with a universal receiver. Using the new SIG cases we have only been able to get to around 83,000psi before we get case ruptures or other failures. I would calibrate your strain gages with a reference load of proven pressures.
Click to expand...

Numbers, models, brands, spreadsheets etc mean NOTHING when improperly applied.

If you're losing Fury cases at "83,000psi" your tests are irrelevant, poorly structured and a slap in the face to Sig Sauer.... the insinuation that we've a world-renowned company releasing a system into the general public and attempting to supply our military men with a new paradigm while operating within 4% of catastrophic failure is demeaning to all concerned.

"Calibration" requires deep understanding......

Instead of telling me to "calibrate" it may well be hoovis upon you to take the time to question your own methodology. UNDERSTAND the facts already presented, the work that's been done, the results documented. I got this exact same drivel from "Varmint Al" back in the day until I was finally forced to ask Mr Al to please refrain from telling thousands of people to stop what they were doing because of his wet dreams.... that in fact the very stuff he was calling impossible was in common daily practice and had been for decades. That perhaps instead of telling Drs Pindell and Palmisano they were WRONG, maybe he, Mr Al, should seek understanding.

Again, if you're destroying this case at 83,000psi ya might wanna' turn 'er over, you're doing it wrong!
 
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