Bushing Question

M

mothball10x

Guest
I have a question on inserting the neck sizeing bushing in the die that it should be put in with the diameter marking down.
Why would it make any differance when they are bored with the same tool all the way through ?
I have always put mine in with the numbers up, for no apparent reason.
Am I missing something here ?

Tom
 
Reckon the easy answer would be to run a few cases with it either way up, mike the necks & see if there is a difference.

I'm at an age when I remember things that maybe weren't said & forget those that were, but I have a recall that the Wilsons at least have a mite of taper on the hole.
 
hmmmm, so what FB is saying is that y'er dinged if you do, danged if you don't....... Using it "the right way" results in the bushing rocking on the upraised lettering, using it small-end-first (Which most will call upsidowney) is the only way to get it to set flat.

am I right?

al
 
Al

I think they are flat. Wilson's instruction sheet, that comes with the dies, states that you get that extra .0005" of sizing by reversing the bushing. I doubt if they would recommend that if it caused uneven sizing.

Ray
 
Well I think that if you squinch them in your caliper jaws 90% of them will rotate on the numbers.

:)

al
 
Al - 90% is a pretty big number. ;)

But, I won't question you on it since I've never done the squinching test myself.

Regardless, bushings often will not size a neck to the exact size stamped or etched on the bushing anyway. Probably best to keep several sizes, in different brands, and use the one that works best. That's what I do about 96% of the time.

Ray
 
Ray, I believe Al is suggesting that the stamping on the bushing can cock it ind the die. Which, as the theory goes, affects not neck tension, but straightness of the final round. In the rarefied air of tunnel shooting, straightness has been shown to affect accuracy. QED.
 
i believe that REDDING's early bushings has numbers stamped hard and deep enough that cocking was an issue, and they said to swap ends...
and
that wilson says swapping ends on thiers may get you a .0005 difference in sizing.....

mike in co
 
If you are concerned with the stamping causing a problem, it should probably be on the bottom, since the top is held against the cap by the upward pressure of the case during sizing. A friend carefully stones the numbers flush. There are other issues, concentricity of of the ID with the OD, and squareness. I have found that carbide seems to be in a whole different class, probably due to its being ground to size. If you want an eye opener, go through your bushings with your neck mic. Also, if you measure the height over the numbers and somewhere else, that should tell you how much they protrude. Recently I cut my necks thinner, and had to go back to a steel bushing, thinking I would eventually order a carbide replacement. I got lucky. Based on measuring case straighness, the steel bushing is exceptional, so I won't have to. They vary a lot.
 
Y'all are assuming a lot.

You're assuming that the stamping on a bushing causes it to be cocked resulting in un-straightness of the sized neck. Maybe the entire die/press set-up is crooked as well, and you are going to get a crooked neck even if the bushing is perfect. Maybe the cocking actually results in a straight case neck???

You're assuming that the number stamped on the bushing is the diameter you can expect your sized cases to be. They can vary quite a bit from the nominal dimension and from brand to brand as well.

You're assuming that tiny details like this make any difference in the grand scheme of things.

JMHO

Ray
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ray,
A friend, (who can afford carbide) keeps telling me that he thinks that his minor case straightness issues are a result of his die. I tell him that without a bushing that is of better quality he cannot tell whether it is the die or the bushing. It seems that he would rather complain than risk a little to possibly solve the "problem". (His rifles seem to me to be to be very accurate.) Recently I acquired a carbide bushing. My case straightness improved. Can I demonstrate that this has improved the accuracy of my ammunition? I cannot. Sometimes we strive to improve things without knowing whether the difference will make a difference at the target. What I really need is a bushing that reads flags.
Boyd
 
no ray...
this was all documented a while back and redding backed up the statements...not assumptions....
does it mean his die is straight..i have no idea..but the issue with bushings and sizing and wether up or down is pretty well documented( in these forums)
mike in co
Cheechako said:
Y'all are assuming a lot.


You're assuming that the stamping on a bushing causes it to be cocked resulting in un-straightness of the sized neck. Maybe the entire die/press set-up is crooked as well, and you are going to get a crooked neck even if the bushing is perfect. Maybe the cocking actually results in a straight case neck???

You're assuming that the number stamped on the bushing is the diameter you can expect your sized cases to be. They can vary quite a bit from the nominal dimension and from brand to brand as well.

You're assuming that tiny details like this make any difference in the grand scheme of things.

JMHO

Ray
Click to expand...
 
One other possibility I have not seen listed here is that with some of the HSS bushings the edges of the hole had a slight radius to aid in the insertion of the case neck and this was on one side only. I have had a couple of these. I had to be reminded the hard way when I reversed the bushing trying to see what I would get when I flipped it and the other end shaved some brass from the case necks. FWIW
 
I haven't looked in awhile, but I believe that Wilson's bushings are radiused on both ends so that they can be installed either end up, but Reddings are only radiused on one end. I always install the things with the numbers up so that if I have a question about which one is in a die I don't have to get the thing out to look just remove the top of the die and look inside. I'm also renowned for my abject laziness.
 
Larry Elliott said:
I haven't looked in awhile, but I believe that Wilson's bushings are radiused on both ends so that they can be installed either end up, but Reddings are only radiused on one end. I always install the things with the numbers up so that if I have a question about which one is in a die I don't have to get the thing out to look just remove the top of the die and look inside. I'm also renowned for my abject laziness.
Click to expand...

You and an awful lot of BR shooters. Anal about what matters not. But Damn Lazy about doing true testing/research. Just my humble opinion
 
The Redding manual states the bushings are to be inserted numbers down. I have heard that Wilson says theirs should be installed just the reverse. Using my 6x loupe, I have tried to see a bevel on either side of both brands, but cannot detect one.
 
Sometimes we strive to improve things without knowing whether the difference will make a difference at the target. What I really need is a bushing that reads flags.
Boyd
Click to expand...



Ohhhh Good Greef ..... YES! Tell me there is such a thing!!! What would those do wit da bushingless dies :p;)

Got a gun that >DOES< like runout.... :cool:.... Nawwwww.... Just funning!!!....... BUT!??! They do exist I'll bet!!! Crook as Heck but shoots a darn DOT.!:eek:

Hehe,
cale
 
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