Bullet weld?

Me too....

In simple fact, were it even remotely possible that I could just be merrily loading along and alla' sudden BLAMMMM! have that happen in the middle of a run...????

I'd switch over to air rifles!

Now, One thing that HASN'T been talked about is letting cases get long enough to crimp onto the bullet.

Let's say a guy has a somewhat loose chamber. And let's say this same guy is running thick necks, tight neck tension and JAMMING deeply into the lands so's he's nearly bruising his hand to close the bolt.


And now let's suppose this feller is a beginning reloader, maybe using a powder on the "fast" end of the spectrum like say VARget instead of H4350.....and maybe a little heavier bullet than he shoulda' been (I've seen guys switch from a 6mm 68gr to a 95 and not adjust the powder charge. . . . for one shot) and let's say he was getting his information from the reloading manual where it says "run the resizing die down until it "cams over" on the shellholder"

So let's say he's over-sizing his cases 4-8 thou each time.....

IME it wouldn't take more than 3-4 reloads before those necks were so bloody long that they were roll-crimping in the chamber, running out of neck and gouging a crimped ring into the sides of the bullet.... COULDN'T let go...... and this self-same guy just forced them in...... the old BFH principle.....



I had a guy on my own range somehow manage to swedge a 7MM Weatherby round into a 7MM Remington chamber on a factory Howa and get 'er to fire. I hadda' cut take drastic measures to get the action back apart........
 
Sounds very plausible, Al. I'd rank it equal to my low powder charge theory. I KNOW that can blow up rifles because it happened to a friend. Same exact result as this one.

I discount the pistol powder theory. I know of a case where a guy used reloading gear that belonged to his girlfriend's ex. The ex had purposely put pistol powder in rifle cannisters. The new boyfriend knew little about reloading and loaded up a batch of max 30-06 rounds and went hunting without trying them. The first round locked up the action. He hit the deer, but meat damage was horrific.

Next year, he went hunting again with the same rifle, but he hadn't buried the last of the bad reloads. He got another one and fired it. Same result. He took it to his shop at Delta Air Lines and used an industrial press to get the action open this time.

Point is, this did NOT blow up the rifle, a Remington 700.
 
vtmarmot said:
Sounds very plausible, Al. I'd rank it equal to my low powder charge theory. I KNOW that can blow up rifles because it happened to a friend. Same exact result as this one.

I discount the pistol powder theory. I know of a case where a guy used reloading gear that belonged to his girlfriend's ex. The ex had purposely put pistol powder in rifle cannisters. The new boyfriend knew little about reloading and loaded up a batch of max 30-06 rounds and went hunting without trying them. The first round locked up the action. He hit the deer, but meat damage was horrific.

Next year, he went hunting again with the same rifle, but he hadn't buried the last of the bad reloads. He got another one and fired it. Same result. He took it to his shop at Delta Air Lines and used an industrial press to get the action open this time.

Point is, this did NOT blow up the rifle, a Remington 700.
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I think only yourself, Elmer Keith................ and me....... believe in detonation :)

That said, don't tell Lee Euber that pistol powder is OK in a rifle. He will tell you otherwise.

Now, the ex-boyfriend who laid a trap for the next guy??? I'll leave that one alone! Love and War and all that
 
And my high school friend who saw his .264 Win. Mag barrel go end-over-end down range makes 4. The action split right at the bridge where the threads are. He was working on reduced loads, and he kept going lower and lower, until.......BLAM! Should have read the manual.
 
T.c.

While were on this topic. I guess the lowest charge in the reloading manuel is ok in anything? I ve got a t. c. encore pistol in 308 Im trying to work up a load for. Shot some factory Remington 150s in it. About like standing behind a German 88. I would guess. Been magnaported. Im going to the lowest charge in the book. Ya think that will be all right? I think its 41 grs. of imr 4064 in my Sierra manuel , behind a 150. Doug
 
vtmarmot said:
And my high school friend who saw his .264 Win. Mag barrel go end-over-end down range makes 4. The action split right at the bridge where the threads are. He was working on reduced loads, and he kept going lower and lower, until.......BLAM! Should have read the manual.
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But the cases in the op all show signs of pressure..... they show signs of having been fired in a home-aid chamber and they are all similarly banged up. What they DO NOT show is the sooty shoulders, smooth surface, case dents and pumpkin-round primers indicative of light loading.
 
Doug Casner said:
While were on this topic. I guess the lowest charge in the reloading manuel is ok in anything? I ve got a t. c. encore pistol in 308 Im trying to work up a load for. Shot some factory Remington 150s in it. About like standing behind a German 88. I would guess. Been magnaported. Im going to the lowest charge in the book. Ya think that will be all right? I think its 41 grs. of imr 4064 in my Sierra manuel , behind a 150. Doug
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Lowest load in the book is safe for everything.....no danger, period.
 
I shot on the same bench as Lee Euber today. I never thought to ask him about pistol powder in a rifle case. Darn!

I do not think that the five loads that preceded the catastrophe were light. I think the last one might well have been due to some weird circumstance. To me that is far more likely than the loader suddenly switching to a piistol powder for one load only. But then I belabor the point.
 
vtmarmot said:
I shot on the same bench as Lee Euber today. I never thought to ask him about pistol powder in a rifle case. Darn!

I do not think that the five loads that preceded the catastrophe were light. I think the last one might well have been due to some weird circumstance. To me that is far more likely than the loader suddenly switching to a piistol powder for one load only. But then I belabor the point.
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His brother was killed by it
 
antelopedundee said:
Do the commercial loaders like Federal, et al use the short cut version of the stick powders considering the speed at which they load ammo? I suppose I could pull a bullet and look, but I'd just as soon not.
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The commercial factories use industrial powder that they purchase by the ton.

It is NOT canister grade and varies significantly more.
They work up a load, often measuring pressures, and then start the machinery up.
 
brickeyee said:
The commercial factories use industrial powder that they purchase by the ton.

It is NOT canister grade and varies significantly more.
They work up a load, often measuring pressures, and then start the machinery up.
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I'm aware of that, but since they load at a rate of several hundred rounds per minute IIRC they have to use something that meters fairly well.
 
And the big boys run in to glitches as well.
I have never had a detonation that i am aware of, but I did have light loads/ insufficient powder in a 375 Weatherby ( starting loads for 375 HH), of the 2 or 3 rounds fired none of the 300 gr pills left the case, the case it self was collapsed , the charge burned in the case created a vacuum and self extinguished. Long time ago likely 4831 - I still have that rig shoots fantastic at 600 yards unfortunately I was looking to build something for 1000 yds at the time, some where between 600 and 1000 that 300 gr pill would destablize and be lucky to hit the target board at 1000 yds sideways. Someday I intend to revisit that unit with some of the newer slow powders available now.

22 lr Eley black box, Win 52 c, circa 1979 bad lot blew the magazine out and other minor damage- no personal injuries- was not my unit person next to on firing line.
1982-or 3- 30/06, 03A3 cast Bullets, Redot, overcharged, experienced reloader, made a mess of that 03A3 again on the firing line next to me 200 yard reduced course NM. 3 previous shots were fine ( all 10's). Again no one was injured although he was pretty shook up. At the time I was shooting a #4 Enfield with cast bullets. Hence the reason that I throw short and trickle up every charge.
 
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blades said:
And the big boys run in to glitches as well.
I have never had a detonation that i am aware of, but I did have light loads/ insufficient powder in a 375 Weatherby ( starting loads for 375 HH), of the 2 or 3 rounds fired none of the 300 gr pills left the case, the case it self was collapsed , the charge burned in the case created a vacuum and self extinguished. Long time ago likely 4831 - I still have that rig shoots fantastic at 600 yards unfortunately I was looking to build something for 1000 yds at the time, some where between 600 and 1000 that 300 gr pill would destablize and be lucky to hit the target board at 1000 yds sideways. Someday I intend to revisit that unit with some of the newer slow powders available now.

22 lr Eley black box, Win 52 c, circa 1979 bad lot blew the magazine out and other minor damage- no personal injuries- was not my unit person next to on firing line.
1982-or 3- 30/06, 03A3 cast Bullets, Redot, overcharged, experienced reloader, made a mess of that 03A3 again on the firing line next to me 200 yard reduced course NM. 3 previous shots were fine ( all 10's). Again no one was injured although he was pretty shook up. At the time I was shooting a #4 Enfield with cast bullets. Hence the reason that I throw short and trickle up every charge.
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Speakin a sideways on paper is it normal to expect that a 6.5mm Sierra 130 grain tipped GameKing would make a smaller cleaner hole in the target than would a Hornady 6.5mm 129 grain SST bullet?
 
It’s all about the tune. A well tuned bullet to barrel twist will spin truer than a bullet that doesn’t match the twist rate and then yaws.
Then again, it’s about the backer on the frame and humidity in the paper and, and, and.
 
FBecigneul said:
It’s all about the tune. A well tuned bullet to barrel twist will spin truer than a bullet that doesn’t match the twist rate and then yaws.
Then again, it’s about the backer on the frame and humidity in the paper and, and, and.
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So it's all about the wobble? I bought some of the Hornadys with the idea of using them on game, but others have said that they're overly destructive so I opted not to use them. I was zeroing in a new scope yesterday so I thought I'd use the Hornadys for that. Just noticed that the holes in the paper were bigger and sloppier. FWIW the Hodgdon loading data for IMR4831 for these bullet weights in a 6.5-06 seems screwy. I'm using 6.5 grains over their max of 47.0 with little sign of pressure. Upon inquiry, they re-affirmed their pressure readings, but neglected to mention charge weights. My numbers are in line with those for a .270 using 130 grain bullets which you'd expect to be close to my loads.
 
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antelopedundee said:
I'm aware of that, but since they load at a rate of several hundred rounds per minute IIRC they have to use something that meters fairly well.
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Vibration works well to keep volume metering uniform.

Ever seen one of those high speed machines in operation?

You need hearing protection.
 
L.c.

I remember at L.C. they had a high speed on 5.56 it ran so fast it made a whine noise. When it started screwin up they couldn't get it shut down before you had buggies of scrap. I worked in an old fashion ww2 style building. We made ammo the old fashioned way. Doug
 
I was at my gun club's range and I saw something like this happen to a friend of mine a long time ago. He was shooting some ammo that he let his teen aged boys had loaded for him in his new wildcat 25-06 improved. He thought he had 60 grains of H4831, which was a strong load, behind a 100 grain bullet but it turns out that the kids had used the wrong powder. They had used 60 grains of 4198 powder that was meant for his 222 Remington. The only thing that could be salvaged from the wreak was his trigger. It was very loud and pieces of his stock went every where. He had some splinter cuts on his face. It was lucky that no one was seriously hurt. To this day he believes the strength of his Mauser action saved him and he may be right.
 
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