"Benchrest" Influence in F-Class

Shooting surface matters for F-TR

Reed, looks like Eric has a nice smooth gravel surface there to place his mat on. I think he'd have a bit harder time shooting free recoil on the kind of rough grass surface that I'm used to. He is apparently using an adjustable bipod with "skis" on the bottom and a thin mat that conforms to the gravel surface. The F-Class rules clearly state that you are not supposed to be shooting off anything that approximates a bench. What he's doing fits the letter of the rule, but perhaps not the spirit. If he had to place his mat on rough ground covered with grass of varying length and numerous lumps of goose poop (as on the range I shoot on), he might find his rifle jumping around a bit. I have yet to find a totally satisfactory solution for F-TR on this range.

F-Open is another story. You can legally set up your rest on said rough ground in a manner to totally neutralized it. You can cut a hole in your mat so your rear bag makes solid contact and if it's heavy enough, it's pretty stable. I and some others do shoot free recoil in this class. The only differences between this and bench rest in my opinion are the fact that you are prone, your rifle can weigh a whole lot more, and that you have no roof to protect you from the elements. Also, you have to schlep your stuff around between the various yardages. 8 hours of this under a blazing sun, working the target butts too, makes this a test of stamina and can destroy your conviction to hold to bench rest techniques. You end up just dreaming about shade and a cold drink.
 
VTMarmot,
Eric is shooting off a HP shooting mat, the same thing the original F Class shooters fired off. It is in no way in contravention of NRA rules. Adjustable bipods and skis are also legal. I don't know you, but I do know Eric. He and Berger Bullets have done more for F-Class shooting than any other company. Even though Eric has shot very little F-Class; if you and Eric had a match on a range of your choosing my money would be on Eric....F-Open or F/TR. Enjoy your goose poop.
Larry Bartholome
 
No Disrespect Meant

Larry,

I certainly respect Eric Stecker for both his ability and his contribution to the shooting sports and bullet technology in general. Sorry if what I said came across as critical of him or his style. I will never come close to what he or you or many others do in this sport. However, I certainly wish for a range with a flat shooting area and no geese. It makes it very hard to get any consistency going. Others do cope with it better than I do. My point was more that F-class conditions vary a lot more than benchrest conditions, in general. I also wish that people would be a little less quick on the trigger and assume people are talking smack. It makes it hard to enjoy the forums sometimes too. Enjoy your nice flat ranges.
 
Perhaps I was a bit quick on the trigger, but by the same token I wish people would not claim a flat firing point is a table. The table rule was put in the book because certain people were carrying 4'x8' sheets of plywood to the firing line. It is sometimes hard to get a good firing point. I have fired on points around the world from billiard tables to river rocks. One range had rocks starting 1/4" round at 300 and ending up at 1k over 2 inches in diameter. Try setting up your FO rest on that. Part of F-Class is adapting to the conditions, be they weather or range.

On another note, I just got a private message asking me to comment on "free recoil". OK... according to NRA FC rules -
FO -The rifle must be fired in the prone position from the shoulder of the competitor using rifle rests as defined in Rule 3.4.1(a).
F/TR - The rifle must be fired in the prone position from the shoulder of the competitor using rifle as defined in 3.4.1(b).
Note there is nothing that says no free recoil. The rules have been interpreted to mean no free recoil because of the statement "from the shoulder of the competitor". OK define that. If it touches my shirt is that from the shoulder? Do we have to measure pressure?

I don't feel it matters if someone does have the rifle 4" off his shoulder. The main thing to remember is it very hard to inforce a rule of this nature. Is it an unfair advantage to shoot complete free recoil? Nope! Remember Eric used "just a whisper of shoulder contact"

When I saw Eric's rifle Walt Berger was standing next to me. I told Walt I couldn't shoot that thing. No place to rest my cheek, no pistol grip to hold on to, stock too short for my shoulder pressure. You know what Walt said. "I couldn't shoot it either. I hold on to my rifles"! A BR Hall of Fame who doesn't shoot free recoil, I couldn't believe it.
Larry
 
Variations in Surfaces, Rests and Bipods

Larry, et al,

Last night I'd come back from a long day at the gun shows and perhaps didn't state things too well. I shoot bench rest with Reed and was trying to fill him in on my perspective, having shot both sports. I'm kind of a "jack of all trades" in that I shoot any kind of a contest that happens along, be it service rifle, bolt rrifle, F-class, bench rest, egg shoots or whatever. Consequently, I'm not an expert in any of them.

I don't travel to shoots very far because I can stay in Vermont and New Hampshire and have a match of some sort about every weekend. Works out better with my full time job. My comment on flat ranges was based on what I saw of some western ranges in Precision Shooting. I know that winds and mirage can be much worse out there so it tends to even out. Someday I'll retire and try some other ranges elsewhere.

I think I've got the F-Open class figured out to the point where I can improve. I finally got some of those special heavy, pointy F-class feet for the same rest that I use off a bench. That should work OK an about any surface. I have a couple of Open rifles that should be competitive if I do my bit. F-TR still vexes me. I may start a thread on that in the proper section. I have a .223 and a .308 that I'm working up loads for and I have acquired an adjustable Sinclair bipod. I have a small piece of carpeted plywood of legal width to put it on. My reading of the rules indicates that I can level that up with rocks, hockey pucks, blocks of wood or whatever the surface might require. I have not actually tried this in a match yet, having previously used a Harris bipod for F-TR.

I worry about equipment escalation in all shooting sports and what it's doing to participation. Without trying to overcomplicate F-class, it might be nice to have a class limited to strictly off-the-shelf rifles and scopes costing less than say 1500 dollars total and Harris bipods only. I know you can get a new Savage for $1200 or so and be competitive, but then there's at least $450 for the scope and rings, $250 for a good bipod and so on. Shooting sure isn't cheap any more.
 
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