Benchrest handicap

JerrySharrett

JerrySharrett

Senile Member
In another thread a unmentioned, shooter suggests a pro and amature handicap classes.

I've shot, over the years, on several national and international sanctioned sports.

NRA has handicapped classes in all their sanctioned sports. I shot 2700, Rimfire Silhouette, and 3 Position from 1964 thru 1974.

ATA trap has handicap groups in all, 16 yard, Handicap and Doubles. I shot registered trap for 12 years.

NSCA skeet has handicapping groups based on ability. I shot registered skeet from 1978 thru 1998.

IHMSA had 4handicaped groups. Shot Big Bore Handgun from 1975 thru 1984.

Ive also shot IR 50/50, ARA and PSL Rimfire benchrest since 2001 to date.

My first NBRSA benchrest match, Unaka, we had 64 shooters, the final Unaka NBRSA shoot in2016, we had 13 shooters.

I was head referee in 2005-2006(?), the last NBRSA Registered Super Shoot, we had over 400 shooters. The2016 Super Shoot had only slightly over 200.

We MUST institute a handicapping system. Some young guy or gal competing against seasoned shooters who have tens of thousands just in equipment and years of experience aren't going to compete on a level basis. Both NBRSA and IBS should look seriously at a handicapping system.


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This was my post. A joke more than anything but I'm all for more shooters. Here it is.................

Nice shooting Wayne it's very humbling shooting next to the good shooters of this sport. I was on the bench to his left all weekend and I still don't see what these people see. It's almost like we need to have a pro league and a amateur league........ of course I wouldn't even be in the amateur one. Nice shooting to all, conditions were rough Sunday. And thanks to MGGOA for putting on the match. Hope everyone made it home safe.
 
sandiego1948 said:
lol
So much for "ultimate rifle accuracy".
Maybe you should start handing out "participation"
awards.
Your fees are way too high, cut your overhead.
Do what Jackie's club has done.
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I agree. There are clubs throughout the Country that have Non Registered Club Matches with various classes that let anybody with a legal firearm come out and compete.

I might have 30 shooters at one of our Tomball Club Matches, where I have a Factory Class, a Modified Class, and a Benchrest Class, and 3/4 of the shooters will be the regular VFS and Group Shooters who compete at the Registered Match Level. My entry fee is $15.

Don't burden Clubs or Ranges with more work than they have now. If you do, then the Few Clubs and Match Directors that are willing to put forth the effort in order to have NBRSA Registered Matches might just say to heck with it.

In Benchrest, it makes no difference if you are a Hall of Famer, or a Shooter who shoots one match a year. You are no better, or worse, than your next Group, or Score target. It's a very demanding endevore. Benchrest is possibly the only Shooting Discipline where the shooter is no better than the Rifle sitting in the bags. I have seen new shooters, (to Benchrest), score a great barrel and a great lot of bullets the first go, and win. Then, that barrel goes away, they shoot up all of those great bullets, and the can't make two bullets touch. Then, they get discouraged and quit.

That is why a class system will not work.
 
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UBR does it similarly to Jackie, but with the addition of an unlimited class. Works well, except there are awards for 1st thru 3rd for each class and each yardage plus grand agg awards for all classes. Whereas, in IBS and NBRSA score, there are typically only awards for 1 class unless hunter is contested.
 
I also want to see participation increase, but not through handicapping. Personally, I like shooting against veterans straight-up. Sure, I take my lumps, but it's a great way to improve in this game.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
.........again everyone my post was more of a joke than anything else. Wish my name was never mentioned ? Being famous sucks ?......... again another joke

Check post #3 that was my original post on another thread about the shamrock. I would hate to have to put a ? Up every time I make a comment that I mean to be funny. ? See what I did there.
 
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Sorry Scott. I will take your famous name off???????.

As to the other comments so far.....the participation keeps dwindling.

As to the initial equipment cost, to shoot registered benchrest, about $1500 for a used rifle, not a problem.

New potential shooters, being constant loosers, sell their $1500 kit and go somewhere else.

Another useless statistic, when I started the Southeast Region had about 15-16 clubs shooting NBRSA/Group. In the 2017 season we have 3...

SO???
...
 
JerrySharrett said:
Sorry Scott. I will take your famous name off???????.

As to the other comments so far.....the participation keeps dwindling.

As to the initial equipment cost, to shoot registered benchrest, about $1500 for a used rifle, not a problem.

New potential shooters, being constant loosers, sell their $1500 kit and go somewhere else.

Another useless statistic, when I started the Southeast Region had about 15-16 clubs shooting NBRSA/Group. In the 2017 season we have 3...

SO???
...
Click to expand...

Thanks Jerry yea it's tough to be famous I get tired of people asking for my autograph when I'm trying to reload ?
And yes I would love for the number of shooters to grow. But I'm not the one to really make a comment about that either I don't go to as many as I should for real reasons and for probably just being lazy. I do love the sport.
 
JerrySharrett said:
Sorry Scott. I will take your famous name off???????.

As to the other comments so far.....the participation keeps dwindling.

As to the initial equipment cost, to shoot registered benchrest, about $1500 for a used rifle, not a problem.

New potential shooters, being constant loosers, sell their $1500 kit and go somewhere else.

Another useless statistic, when I started the Southeast Region had about 15-16 clubs shooting NBRSA/Group. In the 2017 season we have 3...

SO???
...
Click to expand...
Iam a newbie, I was wondering in the big registered shoots what class has the highest participant numbers and maybe in what order they are from highest participation to lowest. I was wondering also what class is the most exspensive, and could you list them in order from most exspensive to least exspensive. I also mean this respectfully but $1500.00 doesn't get you very far in the short range bench game, like I said Iam a newbie this will be my first year trying to shoot in a larger match.
 
This thread had potential to be good, informative, beneficial, detrimental, controversial, ...and nasty.

That said, one 800lb gorilla in the room is obvious. Score shoots are easier for the essential clubs and match officials. That's all I have to say, but it's a mouthful.
 
mwezell said:
This thread had potential to be good, informative, beneficial, detrimental, controversial, ...and nasty.

That said, one 800lb gorilla in the room is obvious. Score shoots are easier for the essential clubs and match officials. That's all I have to say, but it's a mouthful.
Click to expand...

That's what I was worried about. But also I agree about the good, informative and beneficial part also.
 
Off subject a little.
But I've wondered why Fclass blasted off the way it has and BR has dwindled. Is it the NRA backing or what


Jerry, I got your vm talk to ya tomorrow glad it wasn't something major
 
Wjesswheel said:
Iam a newbie, I was wondering in the big registered shoots what class has the highest participant numbers and maybe in what order they are from highest participation to lowest. I was wondering also what class is the most exspensive, and could you list them in order from most exspensive to least exspensive. I also mean this respectfully but $1500.00 doesn't get you very far in the short range bench game, like I said Iam a newbie this will be my first year trying to shoot in a larger match.
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In the three Bag Gun Classes, Light Varmint, Heavy Varmint, and Sporter, the is really no difference in the cost of building one over the other. Many use the same action for all three, the barrels, stocks, triggers, scopes, etc are the same cost.

The lowest class, for the sake of this discussion, is Light Varmint. You can shoot a legal Light Varmint in all four classes. Next is Heavy Varmint, being the only difference between a true Heavy Varmint and a Light Varmint is weight. A Sporter is limited to 10.5 pounds just like a Light Varmint, but there are no barrel profile or stock restrictions. In fact, as long as it has no return to battery capabilities, pretty much anything goes within the 10.5 pound limit.

Unlimited, while not truly unlimited, simply states that the "rifle" must be safely fired and have at least an 18 inch barrel. These rules have reached their pinnicle in the modern return to battery Rail Gun.

All four classes have to comply with the general rules concerning single shot hand loading and the General Bench Rules.

The simple truth is, many shooters, perhaps a majority of Group Shooters, simply shoot their Light Varmint in all three Bag Gun Classes, and often in Unlimited. In the real world of Competitive Shooting, there isn't much a performance difference in a Heavy and a Light, or even a Sporter.

I shoot a HV in Varmint for Score because the 13.5 pound weight makes the 30 BR a lot easier to handle and tolerate.

Technically speaking, the differences in the classes should give the next highest class a distinct advantage. On paper, this is true. But at the bench, not so much.
 
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I believe that the costs required to be competitive will inevitably kill the sport. The very high competitive entry costs = fewer shooters = fewer events = fewer shooters = fewer events and so on.

It reminds me of an interview with the Chevy Caprice brand manager in the late 80s who said that the average buyer was 68 years old and that their market was, literally, dying.
 
SmallBoreBuyer said:
I believe that the costs required to be competitive will inevitably kill the sport. The very high competitive entry costs = fewer shooters = fewer events = fewer shooters = fewer events and so on.

It reminds me of an interview with the Chevy Caprice brand manager in the late 80s who said that the average buyer was 68 years old and that their market was, literally, dying.
Click to expand...

If by "very high competitive entry costs" you mean the amount the club charges you to shoot in a match, think of what that club has to do vs what they net out of that shoot financially. First, the work building up to the shoot, making target frames, installing the frames, making and installing moving backer mechanisms, fixed backer frames and installing them is done by volunteers. The US Feds do not offer private funding or Grants for this neither does the sanctioning bodies (NBRSA/IBS,etc).

Then realize these hosting clubs are financed by membership dues. Factor in that the normal membership funded range is closed TO ITS MEMBERS for several days.

For a cheap to enter sport, take up municipal checker tournaments.

Sorry, regardless of what we were told by FDR and LBJ "there ain't no free lunch"!!


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My wife and I are new (6 months) to benchrest shooting. We would both like to compete in matches and aren't concerned with the experience level difference. The thing keeping us from competition is that matches start early on Saturday morning (7:30 - 8:00). We have to drive 90+ minutes (70 miles) to get to the range. Getting up at 5:30 on Sat. Morning is a non-starter for us. I understand the wind is calmer early on but I'd rather learn to handle the wind and compete than wear myself out getting up early on a day off. Maybe a match with a later start time (10, 11, noon) would draw in new/more shooters.
 
Ive heard it said many times the cost to be competitive with the guys at the top is to high they buy 50 barrels at a time so on and so forth

Not sure i agree with all that while it certainly jelps to have unlimited resources thats not what makes them great.
Its their experience and talent

Ive studied match reports. These guys dont make mistakes. Its not like a lot of mine 3 or 4 good groups then a blowup
Which is what happens to most of us
They dont make mistakes
 
JerrySharrett said:
If by "very high competitive entry costs" you mean the amount the club charges you to shoot in a match, think of what that club has to do vs what they net out of that shoot financially. First, the work building up to the shoot, making target frames, installing the frames, making and installing moving backer mechanisms, fixed backer frames and installing them is done by volunteers. The US Feds do not offer private funding or Grants for this neither does the sanctioning bodies (NBRSA/IBS,etc).

Then realize these hosting clubs are financed by membership dues. Factor in that the normal membership funded range is closed TO ITS MEMBERS for several days.

For a cheap to enter sport, take up municipal checker tournaments.

Sorry, regardless of what we were told by FDR and LBJ "there ain't no free lunch"!!


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Jerry - you seem to be a little schizophrenic here. On the one hand looking for a way to bring in new shooters to save the sport, on the other, telling those who believe the costs of competitive benchrest are too high for them to go play checkers. The problem is that people are choosing other hobbies. You wrote that the Southeast region has seen an 80%-ish drop in the number of events. People are voting with their feet.

With regard to costs, I was not speaking of the event entry costs at all - I don't imagine that putting on tournaments is a lucrative endeavour for the clubs. I was speaking about the investment required to get a gun that is competititve and practicing and competing enough to be good enough to win - to "enter" the competitive ranks of the sport. The sport has evolved to the point that the equipment required to win sits in a very narrow, expensive window. A used gun with a used barrel is pretty much guaranteed to lose. How many used guns are sold with excellent-shooting barrels? Actions are getting better and better. While this means that there is a secondary market for older equipment that used to be competitive, it also means that the top shooters have moved on to even better guns than they had before. How much money do you think that competitve shooters invest over a five year period in the sport? From what I have read, it is well into five figures.

I don't see a way to reduce the costs of benchrest as it currently exists and I believe that without lowering them, the sport will die.

"Let them play checkers" isn't going to help.

My two cents.

John
 
MislMan said:
My wife and I are new (6 months) to benchrest shooting. We would both like to compete in matches and aren't concerned with the experience level difference. The thing keeping us from competition is that matches start early on Saturday morning (7:30 - 8:00). We have to drive 90+ minutes (70 miles) to get to the range. Getting up at 5:30 on Sat. Morning is a non-starter for us. I understand the wind is calmer early on but I'd rather learn to handle the wind and compete than wear myself out getting up early on a day off. Maybe a match with a later start time (10, 11, noon) would draw in new/more shooters.
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"The beginning of every worthwhile endevour starts with getting out of bed".

I'm not sure who to credit with the origin of that phrase, but it is quite fitting in this case.

By the way, Benchrest Matches are not started at 9:AM and 8: AM in the morning because that is when the conditions are calm.
 
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