Benchrest handicap

Well the past administration loaded the Va. up with minorities, now there is no where to park because of the all the incompetent people that draw big money for nothing.
I doubt if you will ever see to many young people shooting bench rest. If they can buy it fine, none seem to be interested in the work involved. They sure don't want to spend the time it takes to win, the phone and games trump shooting BR....... Jim
 
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Loud & Clear

We in the Rimfire game have to pay our dues as well. You are complaining about the cost, do something about it. My centerfire days ended when I lost my right eye, 30 years ago.
PS: The title to this Thread, is Competition Benchrest. If you think Rimfire isn't Competitive, your dreaming.
 
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"Value" class

I think the issue is money. Who wants to throw down $30 to shoot a match to only have an experienced shooter with a much better rifle kick your butt. Once maybe. Twice? No way.

I think a "value" factory class where the gun (without optics) is limited to a certain value, say $500. You win (1st thru 3rd place) in this class and if any competitor offers you $500 you either have to sell your rifle (without optics) to them or give up your win. I think the experienced shooters would still win but let's keep them out of this class somehow.

I say this because I have a 12 yr. old daughter that I'd like to get into our local UBR matches. She can't be competitive in Custom class because of the experienced shooters and I just don't want to shell out the $ for her a custom gun. She can't be competitive in Factory class because I feel she would still be competing against higher cost rifles and more experienced shooters. I save my $ and let her shoot in the backyard all she wants.

Just my $.02
I do know NOTHING would happen without the people who put the work into the matches. I want to personally think EVERYONE who WORKS the matches!!!
 
My wife, Donna and I "ran" NBRSA & IBS registered BR events for 15 years: we always ran a FACTORY Class. I was the sole judge of whether, or, not, a rifle qualified. In general, here in IA, the factory class was a flop: participants were few, returners fewer.

Our best recruiting tool, was the "loaning" of a decent rifle, which I did often - especially when a [rare] factory class participant displayed some aptitude and talent. Even doing that, recruiting for BR has proven exasperating. :p

In a distant past, when I shot IHMSA (handgun silhouette), I never accepted a class, "B", "A", etc. trophy - I'd tell the awards guy, "when I beat THAT guy - the Highest score of the event - I'll accept a trophy." When it comes to classification, I'll confess to being a snob: what does it mean to be the best of the mediocre?:confused: Oh, yes, I dwell in mediocrity much of the time . . . but, once in a while, a little pride is justified - and savory. :eek::D RG
 
Classic Ballistic Idiot! :)

R.G. Robinett said:
My wife, Donna and I "ran" NBRSA & IBS registered BR events for 15 years: we always ran a FACTORY Class. I was the sole judge of whether, or, not, a rifle qualified. In general, here in IA, the factory class was a flop: participants were few, returners fewer.

Our best recruiting tool, was the "loaning" of a decent rifle, which I did often - especially when a [rare] factory class participant displayed some aptitude and talent. Even doing that, recruiting for BR has proven exasperating. :p

In a distant past, when I shot IHMSA (handgun silhouette), I never accepted a class, "B", "A", etc. trophy - I'd tell the awards guy, "when I beat THAT guy - the Highest score of the event - I'll accept a trophy." When it comes to classification, I'll confess to being a snob: what does it mean to be the best of the mediocre?:confused: Oh, yes, I dwell in mediocrity much of the time . . . but, once in a while, a little pride is justified - and savory. :eek::D RG
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we, too, have few factory shooters. What they find is that their MOA rifle (if in fact that is true) can't cut it when shot on the IBS score target. Occasionally one of these morphs into a full fledged BR shooters and makes the jump to equipment that will compete. I'll second Randy's lending comment. Orland Bunker here in Maine has done that unselfishly for years and it has resulted in some new shooters. Fact is though that BR shooting is esoteric. That's my conclusion after shooting it for quite a while. --Greg
 
Randy's comments are mine as well.

Just to put this thread in the right context...How far would you factory rifle guys travel to a registered match? How many times would you do it?
 
I to started Factory and Custom, (non-factory) class in 1985. Now to be sure, you have a lot more rifles then we do. And also Bench rest Class. The first couple of matches we were over whelmed with Factory. To be sure we even had 1 class, 1 day, score of course. Saturday you would shoot Factory 100 and 200yd, on Sunday you would shoot Custom and Bench rest, and we had 20 to 30 Factory show up, and on Sunday, 20 or 30 Custom and Bench rest show up, life was good. About 1987 there were NO Factory people show up and about 20 – 30 Custom and Bench rest show. This went on for a while, about 25 years. We kept the class open and it is still today, open. We have had about 3 Factory show up in about 25 years. These guys would show up and reach for their wallet to show you how accurate that gun was, with a target that was shot at 3:00am in the morning. They would shoot the Factory class, sometimes they would even shoot 200yds, after that they would disappear for life, never to be seen again. What the answer is? I do not know. Tried Pistol silhouette, six classes, 1st time went to the range master, told him I would shoot whatever the class is above AAA, he told me that I would be classified after the match. I then asked him would it be better than beaning at the top of C or the bottom of B. His reply was that the top of C was better, because you would get a trophy. Tried for one year and have not been back since. Lasted about 3 years and then went the way of the DO-DO bird. Factory Class, does not last, we have proven that. EH!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
R.G. Robinett said:
My wife, Donna and I "ran" NBRSA & IBS registered BR events for 15 years: we always ran a FACTORY Class. I was the sole judge of whether, or, not, a rifle qualified. In general, here in IA, the factory class was a flop: participants were few, returners fewer.

Our best recruiting tool, was the "loaning" of a decent rifle, which I did often - especially when a [rare] factory class participant displayed some aptitude and talent. Even doing that, recruiting for BR has proven exasperating. :p

In a distant past, when I shot IHMSA (handgun silhouette), I never accepted a class, "B", "A", etc. trophy - I'd tell the awards guy, "when I beat THAT guy - the Highest score of the event - I'll accept a trophy." When it comes to classification, I'll confess to being a snob: what does it mean to be the best of the mediocre?:confused: Oh, yes, I dwell in mediocrity much of the time . . . but, once in a while, a little pride is justified - and savory. :eek::D RG
Click to expand...

Randy, at our Club Matches, where we have Factory, Modified, and Benchrest classes, if I have 30 shooters, 25 will be the usual VFS crowd with their Heavy Varmints in some type of short 30 caliber.

I think the Factory shooters get discouraged watching us. Untill you actually sit down and shoot a Score Match, it doesn't seem to be that difficult. I have had Factory Shooters bring their "1/4 inch all day" Rifles to a Match and shoot a 230 0x. When they see that it will take a 250 20+ x to be in the hunt in the Benchrest Class, they figure there is no way they could ever do that.

I have no answer for this. When you explain to them that first, you have to have a Rifle and load combo that is capable of that extreme accuracy, it gets back to the money thing again.

I will keep offering the class, and buying the awards. Maybe it will get better, but after 9 years of doing this, I have my doubts.
 
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We all knew when we got into this sport there was a cost. Match fees is
nothing compared to equipment,travel,and supplies. Not to mention getting or having available time
off. As far as a handicap for shooters I would want the reward from getting better than getting a
SPOT. He died a long time ago. The learning curve is a large one in this sport. I personally
would just like to be able to go to some more matches and compete with the BEST PEOPLE shooting.
(no slight on anyone yall are all better than i am)
Regards Dickie
 
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I ran registered Rimfire Benchrest matches for over 15 years. One of our club members complained that he wouldn't participate because he wouldn't have a chance with his Marlin bolt-action & that wasn't fair. This same guy shot registered trap for many years with high end Browning & better trap Guns. COMMON SENSE IS DARN SCARCE !!! :)
 
jackie schmidt said:
Randy, at our Club Matches, where we have Factory, Modified, and Benchrest classes, if I have 30 shooters, 25 will be the usual VFS crowd with their Heavy Varmints in some type of short 30 caliber.

I think the Factory shooters get discouraged watching us. Untill you actually sit down and shoot a Score Match, it doesn't seem to be that difficult. I have had Factory Shooters bring their "1/4 inch all day" Rifles to a Match and shoot a 230 0x. When they see that it will take a 250 20+ x to be in the hunt in the Benchrest Class, they figure there is no way they could ever do that.

I have no answer for this. When you explain to them that first, you have to have a Rifle and load combo that is capable of that extreme accuracy, it gets back to the money thing again.

I will keep offering the class, and buying the awards. Maybe it will get better, but after 9 years of doing this, I have my doubts.
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Jackie, when a factory rifle shooter displayed some aptitude, my standard offer was, "if you'll return
for next months match, I'll bring a tuned rifle for you to shoot, and I'll provide the components at no charge."
A typical reply was something like, "I'm not good enough, or, I don't deserve that, and besides, I can't afford a rifle like that", to which I'd reply, "yes you are THAT good - you deserve a good rifle. You'll be surprised at how good you are - you showed a strong potential."

Some, but not all, accepted the offer: those who did, & experienced how good a tuned competitive rifle was, decided that it wasn't so expensive after all! :cool:;)

As you pointed out, learning that their "quarter inch all day long" rig doesn't quite cut it, most never return. Last year, at Webster City (Boone Valley Ike's), we had a "freak": upon shooting his rifle, which he fully expect would be competitive, then observing the scores and Aggs, following the 100, stated, "I can see that my rifle, good as it is, just isn't competitive - that man promptly purchased a couple of pretty decent used rifles: one Hunter and a HV . . and he's now enjoying all sorts of group and score shooting! :eek: But, isn't he a rare bird - all in after his initial event! :p:cool: That defines one of our problems - we're precision freaks.RG
 
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sandiego1948 said:
Already missing the point.
The true factory guys are LOCAL, and do not pay the
"registered match" fee, just a nominal target cost fee.
A local class to get people interested.
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This highlighted, above, is exactly how Donna & I did it, at River City - over a fifteen year span, we recruited, perhaps, a dozen people. Few "factory" rifles showed up - usually, none. I believe we still offer this (target fee for out of class and/or factory rifles), at Boone Valley, with similar results: perhaps one factory rifle a season. I'm not saying that it's a bad approach - just that, for this part of the world, "the pickin's have been slim.":p Not only do the factory folks not travel, on match day, they stay home. :confused: RG
 
You can have handicap classes, cut prices to the point that the club barely breaks even, push the factory class, But that won't change a thing unless the shooter really wants to compete. The entry fee is one of the smallest costs in this sport, if the amount of the entry fee is the deciding factor in your participation then maybe you need a cheaper hobby.
 
This last weekend I drove to Roanoke, shared a motel room, shot the match and made it home for about $300. That ain't too bad. I didn't add up the powder , bullets and misc. stuff I threw away....
 
MRL said:
You can have handicap classes, cut prices to the point that the club barely breaks even, push the factory class, But that won't change a thing unless the shooter really wants to compete. The entry fee is one of the smallest costs in this sport, if the amount of the entry fee is the deciding factor in your participation then maybe you need a cheaper hobby.
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Very good points.

And besides all that..........IT'S TOO HARD..I don't believe it will be the hobby of choice for the millennials.
 
Sad

I really feel sad for all the Range operators/owners, that have provided such nice facilities, so that many could enjoy the sport of shooting competition. Why you say, they assume the Liability, Pay the rent, or buy the property, maintain the range area, and provide a safe environment for the many dedicated competitors and the new comers as well. Many of the Public Ranges, will shut down their regular operation, so Individual Clubs can have a match or Tournament for their members. What little they charge these Clubs, doesn't make up for the revenue lost by doing so. Many are close to going broke without the fees they collect to keep the facilities running smoothly. They don't get much is return, besides these small fees. If I haven't in the past, I will now, THANK YOU FOR YOUR DEDICATION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY.
 
The millennial is all about instant gratification. Want a date there an app for that just swipe your finger on the screen. Don't even have to talk to her. All is at their finger tips available in an instant
I agree with Dave. Benchrest is to hard for the average millennial takes to long to make any improvements no instant gratification
 
Tim Singleton said:
The millennial is all about instant gratification. Want a date there an app for that just swipe your finger on the screen. Don't even have to talk to her. All is at their finger tips available in an instant
I agree with Dave. Benchrest is to hard for the average millennial takes to long to make any improvements no instant gratification
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I would agree that many millennials are spoiled and into instant gratification, but having raised one kid that is that age, that isn't like that at all, and being involved in raising several others that aren't, I would have to disagree. One mistake us older guys make is thinking like this. Those kids are our future and need to be shown the way, not lumped into one denigrating category so we can turn our back on them. When I was a kid a lot of WWII vets said the same crap about us, it wasn't true then it it ain't now!
 
pablo said:
I would agree that many millennials are spoiled and into instant gratification, but having raised one kid that is that age, that isn't like that at all, and being involved in raising several others that aren't, I would have to disagree. One mistake us older guys make is thinking like this. Those kids are our future and need to be shown the way, not lumped into one denigrating category so we can turn our back on them. When I was a kid a lot of WWII vets said the same crap about us, it wasn't true then it it ain't now!
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I agree Paul. There are bad apples in every generation. There are also many fine millennials. They are at a much different point in their lives than most of us and living it in a much different era.
 
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