Belted vs non-belted cartridges...help !!!

[Yote]

+1

Longshooter-

Your point about belted cases' shoulders being in effect fire formed on the first firing is a good one. On the cases that I have measured the shoulder was blown forward over .020". Additionally, it should be mentioned that many hunter/reloaders of belted magnums have experienced short case life, that they usually wrote off to "magnum pressures" due to inattention to shoulder bump when sizing. With no SAAMI standard for the head to shoulder dimension for belted cases, die manufactures have been forced to build in what would be, for a non belted case, excessive potential bump, and that combined with the common practice of running the die down till it touches the shell holder resulted in short case life due to repeated cycles of excessive bump and blowing back out. Of course you know all of this, but others may not.

Boyd

Boyd, you and I are seeing eye to eye on this. This has been my experience reloading for belted magnums. I use the stony point tool you referenced and headspace off of the shoulder rather than the belt.

This allows me to get minimal bump(.001) on the shoulder to extend case life.

 

[MistWolf]

Holland and Holland invented the Belted Case, for one reason. Many of the chamberings had very shallow shoulders, (to facilitate easy feeding in dangerous situations), and they wanted to insure a positive headspace. Hence, the belt and the corresponding counterbore in the barrel.........jackie

That's true. The shallow shoulders and tapered cases were to facilitate extraction as well. The belt also made feeding from a magazine more reliable than a rim.

I do remember reading that the belt was originally simply added to an existing rimmed cartridge and made it easier to be chambered in double rifles. However, I don't recall the source and it was quite some time ago. There have been lots of myths surrounding the belted case

 

[Rad Mrdal]

I know it does not take much to blow up a Weatherby but I doubt the 7mm Remington round fired in a 7mm Weatherby chamber would do that.. they are just too close in all aspects. It must have been something different...

OK Pal, 40 years in the business, but how many Wea. Mark V blow ups have you've seen or heard of? Rad

 

[longshooter]

I saw an experienced hand loader fire three 243 cartridges in rapid secession through his 6.5 / 06 AI with no harm.

to do this is extemely stupid, and extremely dangerous.

it is not uncommon to see 300 Win mag cases with hardly any neck left laying on the ground. They had been shot in a 300 Weatherby chamber.

of course, this would not be recommended either, as the cartridges are not close in their size comparison. common sense and discretion need to prevail. however, it might illustrate the difficulty in producing a problem, using this method.

another thing that i notice, is that i would not attempt the conversion of non-weatherby belted to a weatherby chamber, as the weatherby's ascribe to smaller neck dimensions.

 

[longshooter]

Dennis

thank you dennis, for posting. you are quite correct in your analysis.

 

[Larry Willis]

bj75 ...........

Take a look at my website, and you'll find lots of information on belted magnums. I even have an article that shows a 300 Win Mag round fired in a 300 Wby rifle. http://www.larrywillis.com/caution.html (Don't try this)

Here's a page that lists questons and answers about reloading problems that are unique to belted magnum calibers. http://www.larrywillis.com/answers.html

Here's a page that explains headspace that shows a cutaway view of a belted case, and it explains the cause of case separations.
http://www.larrywillis.com/headspace.html

To see the whole website (over 112 pages) you need to use this link http://www.larrywillis.com

I never did like belted cases. However, I wouldn't prefer any non-belted magnum unless you KNOW FOR SURE that it will be around for a long time. Some of the new non-belted magnums have serious problems of their own, and the brass is already getting hard to find for some of them. It's always a good idea to do careful research before deciding which new rifle to buy. God knows that most of us will always "need" to buy another rifle ...

- Innovative