Just curious if anyone has played with Belleville washers much? From what I have read and studied, they look like they might have a pretty good dampening effect if used properly. I have been brainstorming to come up with some type of spring to use as a barrel tuner, so maybe if I can figure out how to make a housing, these Belleville washers just might be the ticket. They make these washers in a couple different configurations, and out of different material. spring steel, stainless steel and a few others. Single wave, and even a double wave. If I were to stack these washers against each other they just absorb some of the harmonics?? Any thoughts? Lee
belleville washers
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
Dave Tooley
Active member
lee,
They would be used between the tuner and a jamb nut to preload the connection and allow for expansion caused by heat. They wouldn't do anything for dampening barrel harmonics except add a very minimal amount of weight .
Dave
They would be used between the tuner and a jamb nut to preload the connection and allow for expansion caused by heat. They wouldn't do anything for dampening barrel harmonics except add a very minimal amount of weight .
Dave
Dave
I see what your saying. I do make my tuners/weights in a pretty basic configuration. I use a small set screw with a piece of free floating delrin placed under the set to insure the tuner doesn't move and to protect the threads from the set screw. If I were to use a Belleville between the weight and the shoulder on the barrel, I can see were it might help by pre loading the tuner. I have heard some fellas say that they think set screws are a bad idea to secure the weight to a barrel as they think the tuner can move in the slop of the threads. I don't see that myself. I cut my threads very close, and then I use a rap of Teflon tape for a little extra drag. Ive never had one move, even without a set screw. ,
I am still going to try to come up with some type of spring to hang off the end of a barrel. It may or may not work? Wont cost me much to try. Lee
I see what your saying. I do make my tuners/weights in a pretty basic configuration. I use a small set screw with a piece of free floating delrin placed under the set to insure the tuner doesn't move and to protect the threads from the set screw. If I were to use a Belleville between the weight and the shoulder on the barrel, I can see were it might help by pre loading the tuner. I have heard some fellas say that they think set screws are a bad idea to secure the weight to a barrel as they think the tuner can move in the slop of the threads. I don't see that myself. I cut my threads very close, and then I use a rap of Teflon tape for a little extra drag. Ive never had one move, even without a set screw. ,
I am still going to try to come up with some type of spring to hang off the end of a barrel. It may or may not work? Wont cost me much to try. Lee
geo.ulrich
Member
Lee, not for sure but I think Darrel Lokers might have a Belleville washer can't remember for sure either way..
Boyd Allen
Active member
A friend made me a copy of a tuner that Dwight Scott made some time back, and Dick Wright wrote about. It has a bracket clamped on the end of the barrel that also clamps on a threaded rod below the barrel, that can be screwed in and out to tune. After playing with mine a bit, I decided that I needed to add some weight to the rod, so I bought some hex nuts and stacked them on the rod, jamming them finger tight. As I proceeded with my test, I fount that the nuts would loosen, and when they were just a little less than tight, the groups got very small, but when they got too loose, where they could rattle, the groups opened up quite a bit. What I need to do is go back and us a couple of nylock nuts on the ends of the stack so that I can set it up so that there is is just the right amount of tension to allow some movement, but not rattle. The results looked very promising. http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af340/fresburgflash/Scott-ishTuner003.jpg
V
Vibe
Guest
Dave Tooley
Active member
asymmetrical dampening to have more influence on the vertical movement of the muzzle??
Just curious but has anyone tried clocking an asymmetrical tuner other than the 6 o'clock position?
Lee,
With all things rifle I strongly believe in the terms parallel, perpendicular and stress free.
Dave
Just curious but has anyone tried clocking an asymmetrical tuner other than the 6 o'clock position?
Lee,
With all things rifle I strongly believe in the terms parallel, perpendicular and stress free.
Dave
geo.ulrich
Member
Been done try a search for patent rights
adamsgt
Jerry Adams
Yes, my CG Millennium action uses belleville washers in the bolt. However it is a four lug bolt and the force required to lift and cock is a bit distracting. I eventually started placing my right thumb on the rear of the action to give me some leverage when raising the bolt handle. IIRC, Alan Warner did some conversions to replace the washers with springs.
Boyd Allen
Active member
To answer a couple of questions, yes I have played around with the extension of the threaded rod. The picture was of just one position. I did not find the bare rod as responsive as I would have liked, which is why I added the stack of nuts. As to not clocking the rod directly below the barrel, I have tried that as well. The best report for a difference from doing so came from a friend who was given one like this by Dwight Scott, an original, of what my friend copied from a picture in PS. He put it on a 40X rimfire and said that he noticed a significant improvement when he moved it to 4:00 O'clock ( I think that was what he said. It has been a long time.) In one of the later articles that Dick wrote the one that he has showed an added weight, which is where I got the idea. After I put nylock nuts at the ends of the stack, and do whatever experimenting I can with how the stack is set, my next move will probably be to alternate something like sorbothane washers between the nuts with a little pressure on them, to see if that improves performance with damping. I may also play around with a Deresonator in different positions on the barrel. Unfortunately, the barrel that the tuner is fitted to is not one of my favorites, which muddies up things a bit, because of its less than stellar previous performance, not bad, but never excellent. It is a Broughton 5C 14 twist that was marked with a groove diameter of .2432. This did not make me happy. Some time after I got it, I decided that my mistake may have been treating it as if it was the same as my other barrels, so I started adding more powder, and things got better, right at the point where it started to be challenging to get it in the case. I have some LT 32 that may be a good match for that barrel. We shall see.
bellvill
SKeetlee -
Howdy !
FWIW -
The F-16 aircraft utilizes 2ea nested, large-diam " belllville " washers on their Nose Landing Gear Shock Strut.... as a " shimmy damper ".
I was used to seeing things like Hodaily " Shimmy dampers " and such on fighter jet' nose gear. Then, along came the F-16... and all it used to dampen Nose Wheel " shimmy " was the
2 nested Bellville's.
For the aerospace application mentioned above. all that was required were the 2ea washers, and a mounting/incorporation method that allowed torquing the washers to a certain amount of inch lb @ the adjustment point ( from memory.... I believe is was an inch lb torque spec, and not ft lb ).
My point:
The Bellville's design/materiels/construction itself, provides the " springiness ". There is no additional spring ( or separate spring ).
Perhaps you could get by with a mechanism for trapping the nested washers between a fixed position, and an adjustment nut @ the other end ?
With regards,
.357Mag
SKeetlee -
Howdy !
FWIW -
The F-16 aircraft utilizes 2ea nested, large-diam " belllville " washers on their Nose Landing Gear Shock Strut.... as a " shimmy damper ".
I was used to seeing things like Hodaily " Shimmy dampers " and such on fighter jet' nose gear. Then, along came the F-16... and all it used to dampen Nose Wheel " shimmy " was the
2 nested Bellville's.
For the aerospace application mentioned above. all that was required were the 2ea washers, and a mounting/incorporation method that allowed torquing the washers to a certain amount of inch lb @ the adjustment point ( from memory.... I believe is was an inch lb torque spec, and not ft lb ).
My point:
The Bellville's design/materiels/construction itself, provides the " springiness ". There is no additional spring ( or separate spring ).
Perhaps you could get by with a mechanism for trapping the nested washers between a fixed position, and an adjustment nut @ the other end ?
With regards,
.357Mag
I don't have an engineer type of mind set, so its hard for me sometimes to see the ideas I have. However I do believe that there has to be some way to absorb vibration from a rifle barrel. I know a lot of folks use rubber, but I would have to think there is something better.
My dad was a machinist/toolmaker and he was telling me about how they would use spring type devises on different types of machinery back in the day to dampen vibrations. All of this came about one afternoon when he walked in on me making a tuner for one of my barrels. I was simply making a screw on weight such as the weights that gene Beggs makes. Dad claimed, that yes the weight might change the vibration, but it wouldn't do anything to help absorb it. Not that that's a bad thing. I just think if I could slow or absorb the vibration a great deal, the load window would increase a large amount. I have used weights with sims vibration laboratory donuts, and it seems to help. So rubber does in fact work, but my question is as always. Can I make it do better?? Lee
My dad was a machinist/toolmaker and he was telling me about how they would use spring type devises on different types of machinery back in the day to dampen vibrations. All of this came about one afternoon when he walked in on me making a tuner for one of my barrels. I was simply making a screw on weight such as the weights that gene Beggs makes. Dad claimed, that yes the weight might change the vibration, but it wouldn't do anything to help absorb it. Not that that's a bad thing. I just think if I could slow or absorb the vibration a great deal, the load window would increase a large amount. I have used weights with sims vibration laboratory donuts, and it seems to help. So rubber does in fact work, but my question is as always. Can I make it do better?? Lee
bellville washers
Skeetlee -
Howdy !
FWIW -
I've sent pics of my cast-in-place " barrel block ", that I made for my Marlin M-336 XLR .35 Rem.
In this application, the block locked the barrel to the mag tube, and also provided an attach point for the home-made bi-pod legs.
This set-up really helps my M-336 ( and me ) shoot a lot " tighter ". The 2 fliers were a result of my not reading the windflag indications correctly.
With regards,
.357Mag
Skeetlee -
Howdy !
FWIW -
I've sent pics of my cast-in-place " barrel block ", that I made for my Marlin M-336 XLR .35 Rem.
In this application, the block locked the barrel to the mag tube, and also provided an attach point for the home-made bi-pod legs.
This set-up really helps my M-336 ( and me ) shoot a lot " tighter ". The 2 fliers were a result of my not reading the windflag indications correctly.
With regards,
.357Mag
bellville
Skeetlee -
Howdy !
Oops !! Forgot to mention.... the media I used to pour the "barrel block " was " casting resin ". It smelled just like fiberglass resin, and poured/dried clear.
The milky appearance of the block, was the result of my sanding the outside profile using a fairly coarse sanding disc.
I've had thoughts about using a poured barrel block, for a bolt gun. This could include knurling the area of the barrel that would be held within the "block ".
Were I to pour another one today, I'd give an good 2-part epoxy resin a try. I have not seen any kits that would be large enough to cover the pour using a single "kit".
There may be some out there, it's just not something that I've encountered. I'm convinced the 2-part epoxy would dry quicker, especially if one finessed the accelerator.
Hmm......
With regards,
.357Mag
Skeetlee -
Howdy !
Oops !! Forgot to mention.... the media I used to pour the "barrel block " was " casting resin ". It smelled just like fiberglass resin, and poured/dried clear.
The milky appearance of the block, was the result of my sanding the outside profile using a fairly coarse sanding disc.
I've had thoughts about using a poured barrel block, for a bolt gun. This could include knurling the area of the barrel that would be held within the "block ".
Were I to pour another one today, I'd give an good 2-part epoxy resin a try. I have not seen any kits that would be large enough to cover the pour using a single "kit".
There may be some out there, it's just not something that I've encountered. I'm convinced the 2-part epoxy would dry quicker, especially if one finessed the accelerator.
Hmm......
With regards,
.357Mag
Bellville
SKeetlee -
Howdy !
I think I may have already shared with you, the attached pics; which show my bolt gun w/ home made " barrel clamp " ?
I can move the clamp to " tune-out " verticle.
On my 6mm wildcat, I started w/ the clamp butt-up against the recoil lug. I would shoot a group, and then move the clamp forward in 1/8th inch increments.
I found the barrel's/load's happy place @ the point where the clamp's aft edge was 1/2" ahead of the recoil lug.
I did make provision to use the recoil lug w/ the " aluminum beam stock " , although recoil is mild enough that I think the clamp alone could have handled it.
With regards,
.357Mag
SKeetlee -
Howdy !
I think I may have already shared with you, the attached pics; which show my bolt gun w/ home made " barrel clamp " ?
I can move the clamp to " tune-out " verticle.
On my 6mm wildcat, I started w/ the clamp butt-up against the recoil lug. I would shoot a group, and then move the clamp forward in 1/8th inch increments.
I found the barrel's/load's happy place @ the point where the clamp's aft edge was 1/2" ahead of the recoil lug.
I did make provision to use the recoil lug w/ the " aluminum beam stock " , although recoil is mild enough that I think the clamp alone could have handled it.
With regards,
.357Mag