Surely in the interest of extreme rifle accuracy we should use the most dense core. Osmium is the metal with the highest density at 22.6 g/cm3. Twice as dense as lead. Just because it is volatile and toxic shouldn't stop a true accuracy guru.
Surely in the interest of extreme rifle accuracy we should use the most dense core. Osmium is the metal with the highest density at 22.6 g/cm3. Twice as dense as lead. Just because it is volatile and toxic shouldn't stop a true accuracy guru.
B
Big Al
Guest
Lucky for the shooting world there is a vary good article written by a well known neurosurgeon that has been bitten by the trap and skeet Malays. He has taken the time to research the recoil reaction and why all of the different tricks end up not working in the long run to avoid the flinch.
To briefly summarize, human physiology will not allow you to punish your body for only so long. Even subconsciously your body knows that certain actions will cause pain and it rebels against that body movement. I know we as shooters have seen the many tricks that shooters have employed to beat the pain and we have seen the progression of different methods that worked for a while and the move to the next trick.
Yes, recoil is bad and it has a wide range of the down side. I recommend it's avoidance, at all cost.
To briefly summarize, human physiology will not allow you to punish your body for only so long. Even subconsciously your body knows that certain actions will cause pain and it rebels against that body movement. I know we as shooters have seen the many tricks that shooters have employed to beat the pain and we have seen the progression of different methods that worked for a while and the move to the next trick.
Yes, recoil is bad and it has a wide range of the down side. I recommend it's avoidance, at all cost.
O
Old Gunner
Guest
I get sub MOA when using 150 grain bullets, and never got that good result from 180 or heavier from the same .303 barrel.
Its partly due to action flex of the rear locking receiver, not a problem you'd have with front locking actions, though if bolt lugs weren't properly lapped in and seated the same effect can be a noticable problem at extreme range.
I've checked up on the 7.62 conversions of the No.4 action and the general cosensus is that while the 155 grain bullets can give better long range performance than the 144 grain standard, rifles using the heavier bullet often shoot poorly compared to results with the 144 which is now becoming hard to find and doesn't compete on equal terms with the heavier bullets of the same caliber in long range matches.
A smaller bullet/bore diameter allows greater efficiency when lighter bullets are used, compared to the same bullet weight in a larger caliber all being equal which it seldom is.
PS
Recent research by the NRA has led to safety warnings against use of 155 or heavier bullets in the converted No.4 rifles due to the bore being optimized for the earlier undersized bullet once used with the 144 loads.
http://www.triplej.com.au/pdfpages/pressure_factors.pdf
Its partly due to action flex of the rear locking receiver, not a problem you'd have with front locking actions, though if bolt lugs weren't properly lapped in and seated the same effect can be a noticable problem at extreme range.
I've checked up on the 7.62 conversions of the No.4 action and the general cosensus is that while the 155 grain bullets can give better long range performance than the 144 grain standard, rifles using the heavier bullet often shoot poorly compared to results with the 144 which is now becoming hard to find and doesn't compete on equal terms with the heavier bullets of the same caliber in long range matches.
A smaller bullet/bore diameter allows greater efficiency when lighter bullets are used, compared to the same bullet weight in a larger caliber all being equal which it seldom is.
PS
Recent research by the NRA has led to safety warnings against use of 155 or heavier bullets in the converted No.4 rifles due to the bore being optimized for the earlier undersized bullet once used with the 144 loads.
http://www.triplej.com.au/pdfpages/pressure_factors.pdf
K
katokoch
Guest
Maybe this will make me think differently before I put another Brenneke Black Magic Magnum through my 870. Oh, wait, that's my brother before his first deer hunting trip
.
O
Old Gunner
Guest
Maybe this will make me think differently before I put another Brenneke Black Magic Magnum through my 870. Oh, wait, that's my brother before his first deer hunting trip
I have a Maverick synthetic stocked 12 gauge that weighs not much more than a wooden stocked .22. I've fired three rounds since I got it, and I'm in no hurry to take it out again soon, and thats with a built in recoil pad.
Very accurate though, should be a winner.
Maybe this will make me think differently before I put another Brenneke Black Magic Magnum through my 870. Oh, wait, that's my brother before his first deer hunting trip
Fond memories of Min'desoda......... I worked as gunsmith in a sporting goods store. The store was owned by a sergeant of the police force. A local boy wanted to be a cop, he rode around with them, walked and talked and dressed like them. He special ordered a Winchester Defender, pistol grip, sling and muzzle attachment, piccatinnies all over.... a real doorbreaker.
He also bummed some police buckshot loads from his ride-around buds.......
He didn't come into the store for a week.......(odd)
When he did come in he used a cane, in his left hand.
Two rounds...... he bruised his face and head with the first one because he fired it "high," gave hisself a bloody lip...... it hurt too bad to do it again.
So's he fired #2 from the port position...... this time it sprained his trigger finger, broke his wrist and gave him a hernia!!
He gave up.
he never became a cop
al
O
Old Gunner
Guest
Pistol grip angle can make a difference, a bartender asked me to go shooting to try out a single barrel shotgun cut to minimum legal length, one a deputy friend had cut down for him to put behind the bar due to a rash of armed robberys.
There was just enough butt stock to remain in the legal OAL.
I fired a 12 gauge slug load from it one handed, and it actually didn't hurt a bit.
There was just enough butt stock to remain in the legal OAL.
I fired a 12 gauge slug load from it one handed, and it actually didn't hurt a bit.
Gunner you're so right
As long as you just whack off the stock stock and leave the grip straight you're fine. Especially if you leave a little paddle....... but he just hadda' have the stupid vertical pistol grip like in the movies. His wrist was so preloaded when he fired that something HAD TO give.
Now, having fired some sod-offs that were just cut down single-shots I will say this, they can shore put a lump on your second finger from the trigger guard whacking it.
al
As long as you just whack off the stock stock and leave the grip straight you're fine. Especially if you leave a little paddle....... but he just hadda' have the stupid vertical pistol grip like in the movies. His wrist was so preloaded when he fired that something HAD TO give.
Now, having fired some sod-offs that were just cut down single-shots I will say this, they can shore put a lump on your second finger from the trigger guard whacking it.
al
F
f d shuster
Guest
Recoil
A lot of good points being made here. I also have become more recoil sensitive as I've gotten older. Not much fun when you walk away from firing a "big one", off the bench, and have a pounding headache, sore shoulder, neck, even lower back. Arthritis does not help either. Cost factor is also a big consideration: match grade 223 for almost 1/2 the cost of match grade 308. A can of Varget empties real fast at 45 grs. per each 308. The torqueing/twisting recoil of the larger ctgs. does nothing for accuracy, another problem. I just don't believe in using more "gun" than is necessary, and how much does it take to punch a hole in a piece of paper. If needed, in hunting, yes, I understand, a "big one" is required. Whatever works for you.
A lot of good points being made here. I also have become more recoil sensitive as I've gotten older. Not much fun when you walk away from firing a "big one", off the bench, and have a pounding headache, sore shoulder, neck, even lower back. Arthritis does not help either. Cost factor is also a big consideration: match grade 223 for almost 1/2 the cost of match grade 308. A can of Varget empties real fast at 45 grs. per each 308. The torqueing/twisting recoil of the larger ctgs. does nothing for accuracy, another problem. I just don't believe in using more "gun" than is necessary, and how much does it take to punch a hole in a piece of paper. If needed, in hunting, yes, I understand, a "big one" is required. Whatever works for you.
T
Tom Sarver
Guest
Recoil & accuracy
This is something I think I can help answer. Some .30's are hard to handle but for many reasons. The .300 Hulk has serious recoil but if you learn how to "ride the bags" you can send'em down in a hurry and they will be touching.
I've shot alot of matches with the big .30.......and lots of tinkering.
It's simple...some days I got it and some days I don't! When I set up I set up the SAME way everytime. This allows me (my body) to know what's coming next and at what angle. You simply have to tune your body to your rifles recoil. I try to keep as consistant as I can BUT....many varibles occur will shooting a big .30 as well as a little .25 or 264. I try very hard to concentrate on tracking....alot of time I can shoot 2-3 shots and NEVER adjust anything just push the gun forward....next shot I'm crank'en like heck...what happend? Heck if I know but that's the trick. I shot a 6.5 for a while and now I shoot a .260 in my tactical working gun and recoil is WAAYYY less...but still present. As I said before taming recoil in any caliber/cartridge is an issue. If your sensative to recoil it's gonna take lots of practice and experience and GOOD conditions to shoot good groups at long range...and short. But it can be done. Obviously smaller cartridges recoil less...and some are more accurate AT SHORT range as in BUG hole groups.
But I believe if you can tame a .30 your groups over a life time of long range BR will be better than a smaller cartridge. And of course this means if all things are equal in accuracy....
I hope that made sense....
Tom Sarver
TVP
This is something I think I can help answer. Some .30's are hard to handle but for many reasons. The .300 Hulk has serious recoil but if you learn how to "ride the bags" you can send'em down in a hurry and they will be touching.
I've shot alot of matches with the big .30.......and lots of tinkering.
It's simple...some days I got it and some days I don't! When I set up I set up the SAME way everytime. This allows me (my body) to know what's coming next and at what angle. You simply have to tune your body to your rifles recoil. I try to keep as consistant as I can BUT....many varibles occur will shooting a big .30 as well as a little .25 or 264. I try very hard to concentrate on tracking....alot of time I can shoot 2-3 shots and NEVER adjust anything just push the gun forward....next shot I'm crank'en like heck...what happend? Heck if I know but that's the trick. I shot a 6.5 for a while and now I shoot a .260 in my tactical working gun and recoil is WAAYYY less...but still present. As I said before taming recoil in any caliber/cartridge is an issue. If your sensative to recoil it's gonna take lots of practice and experience and GOOD conditions to shoot good groups at long range...and short. But it can be done. Obviously smaller cartridges recoil less...and some are more accurate AT SHORT range as in BUG hole groups.
But I believe if you can tame a .30 your groups over a life time of long range BR will be better than a smaller cartridge. And of course this means if all things are equal in accuracy....
I hope that made sense....
Tom Sarver
TVP
T
Tom Sarver
Guest
One more thing...
Once you get the recoil down....
Many matches I've walked up to the bench....set-up my gear...my front rest..then my rear...then the rifle...my SureFeed then my ammo box...my stool height and angle...adjust my scope...work rifle back and forth in bags and get it settled nice and tight...and many others things!
Then I shoot my relay....if a grin comes across my face...I know it's 4" or less just about everytime. Why? Recoil was PERFECT and rifle Tracked Perfect. Most of all I did my part. If I don't...it shoots like everyone else...bigger than the relay winner. This sport is very technical. I know what I can do behind an accurate rifle. So did Mike Tyson when he put his gloves on.... but he did'nt always come out on top...when he should have...like lots of great long range br shooters we have like Yott, Brooks, Fisher, and MANY others. 2009 season was a learning lesson for me. 2010 will be much better...I'm putting gloves back on.
Hope this helps....
Tom
Once you get the recoil down....
Many matches I've walked up to the bench....set-up my gear...my front rest..then my rear...then the rifle...my SureFeed then my ammo box...my stool height and angle...adjust my scope...work rifle back and forth in bags and get it settled nice and tight...and many others things!
Then I shoot my relay....if a grin comes across my face...I know it's 4" or less just about everytime. Why? Recoil was PERFECT and rifle Tracked Perfect. Most of all I did my part. If I don't...it shoots like everyone else...bigger than the relay winner. This sport is very technical. I know what I can do behind an accurate rifle. So did Mike Tyson when he put his gloves on.... but he did'nt always come out on top...when he should have...like lots of great long range br shooters we have like Yott, Brooks, Fisher, and MANY others. 2009 season was a learning lesson for me. 2010 will be much better...I'm putting gloves back on.
Hope this helps....
Tom
O
oldgoathair
Guest
Help on the way
Maybe these boys can help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ged4lz_Fw2Y&feature=related
Maybe these boys can help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ged4lz_Fw2Y&feature=related
O
Old Gunner
Guest
Question for anyone in the know.
How well does the .25/06 stand up these days, comparatively?
Years ago, early 90's , a friend built a custom 1,000 yard match rifle in .25/06 on a Whitworth Mauser action he'd picked up dirt cheap, I think $50, from a Smith who'd ordered it for a client who'd apparently died before picking it up.
I'd thought the .25 an odd choice at the time, but we went through some older match results and found that the caliber had performed beyond expectations in a number of 1,000 yard matches once propellants had improved to give it a good match to case capacity etc.
How well does the .25/06 stand up these days, comparatively?
Years ago, early 90's , a friend built a custom 1,000 yard match rifle in .25/06 on a Whitworth Mauser action he'd picked up dirt cheap, I think $50, from a Smith who'd ordered it for a client who'd apparently died before picking it up.
I'd thought the .25 an odd choice at the time, but we went through some older match results and found that the caliber had performed beyond expectations in a number of 1,000 yard matches once propellants had improved to give it a good match to case capacity etc.