BAT action truing?

I would not go so far as to say that a Bat action could not be measured imperfect, but I'll qualify that statement. Things like a bolt face that's "out" as mentioned above. Was that checked by putting it in a lathe and running an indicator on it? If so, forget that method. How close is the lathe?

Receiver face out? Well, to my knowledge they are done in a lathe, threads and face in one operation. If they are out, I'd like to see the equipment that found that error... This is not like some other customs that were thread milled with a face turned in a lathe. Those are out a mile, and it's not hard to see. And off center to boot, but that's another story.

Years ago I bought one and I asked all sorts of questions about its construction before the purchase. I wanted to know that normal common sense machining was done, not some carzy marketing buzzword crap that folks think makes an action wonderful. If Bruce had told me it had EDM'd raceways I would not have bought it. Why? Because anyone who would EDM them in production is doing it for marketing reasons, and it is a waste of money, and it is a cost passed on to the customer. Thanks anyhow. I want my action to be made by the guy who knows the right tool for the job, and why. Also, by the guy who knows what dimensions are important, and why. Where to spend time (which = $$$) and where not to.

Dimensions on a Bat all end with either a 0 or a 5. They're not some prime number pulled from the sky. If you measure a hole center with a caliper and it looks like 1". It is 1.000". And it was intended to be.

Then there are things that have been found to be "wrong" on Bat's, and low and behold, it was done on purpose... Imagine that. Yes, there's a couple tenths of taper in the threads...
 
Explain to me why wiring the raceways compromises the receiver. Do you believe they spend thousands of dollars on a deep throat wire machine for marketing purposes? Do you realize about 90% of the customers don't know or care how they are done? I sure don't see your reasoning.
Butch
 
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Butch Lambert said:
Explain to me why wiring the raceways compromises the receiver. Do you believe they spend thousands of dollars on a deep throat wire machine for marketing purposes? Do you realize about 90% of the customers don't know or care how they are done? I sure don't see your reasoning.
Butch
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It does not 'compromise' the receiver. It tells me the person who made it had no problem throwing my money down the toilet. That's all. If they do that, what else have they done? Instead of a hole, they have a damn expensive hole. Who pays for it?

See Butch, I've owned an action with the raceways wired, and guess what. It was a piece of crap. Worse than any Remington I ever saw. All the EDM'n in the world doesn't make up for poor machining practices. About all I can say good about that action was, it had nice raceways... But, so does Bat. Imo, nicer yet.

The guy who drills and reams the hole that starts the entire process, then broaches it. That guy has common sense. I'll take that over all the technology in the world.

To each their own I guess.
 
quote:The guy who drills and reams the hole that starts the entire process, then broaches it. That guy has common sense. I'll take that over all the technology in the world.

boy i hope you don't have this attitude when the surgeon want's to use a computer to guide the laser in to your brain if you ever get a tumor .?? technology ia why we are were we are today


regards tasy_ted
 
jackie schmidt said:
It seems a little strange that for an action that is good to go right out of the box, there are several notable Gunsmiths making a pretty good dollar "fixing" them.
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Jackie's statement is very accurate. Does this not tell us something? Not about BAT in particular but in any instance it does indicate that even custom actions are not, all the time, perfect in alignment and in firing mechanism tuning.

If you are going to spend a few thousand dollars in barrels and bullets during the life of the new action you just bought, does it not make sense to spend a hundred or so in getting a competent benchrest gunsmith to "blueprint" it??

I'm not talking about "Joe the gunsmith" who fixed the firing pin in Granddads Winchester 37. I'm talking about the gunsmith whose name is in the "gunsmith" column of the winners on the match reports.
 
What ever happened to the thought, "Don't waste your money truing a 700 - buy a custom action" ? ;)
 
tasy_ted said:
boy i hope you don't have this attitude when the surgeon want's to use a computer to guide the laser in to your brain if you ever get a tumor .?? technology ia why we are were we are today
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Ted, all I'm saying is if there are two options, one is to use the laser, the other is to take an aspirin, and both work, then no, the Yaahoo with the laser can stay home.

JerrySharrett said:
Jackie's statement is very accurate. Does this not tell us something? Not about BAT in particular but in any instance it does indicate that even custom actions are not, all the time, perfect in alignment and in firing mechanism tuning.

If you are going to spend a few thousand dollars in barrels and bullets during the life of the new action you just bought, does it not make sense to spend a hundred or so in getting a competent benchrest gunsmith to "blueprint" it??

I'm not talking about "Joe the gunsmith" who fixed the firing pin in Granddads Winchester 37. I'm talking about the gunsmith whose name is in the "gunsmith" column of the winners on the match reports.
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Jerry,

I'll allow on the firing mechanism there are modifications for the better. One of em can be attributed to me. But if someone is going to "straighten one out", I'm just skeptical about who is doing it, and how. Like you say above, take it to someone who is reputable. I'd further wonder what benefit is gained by doing so. Real world benefit now. I'd love to hear some things that were found. I can talk for another brand and say I've found unbelievable issues. Things visible with the naked eye, easily. As for alignment issues, I can think of at least one thing right now that might cause a person to measure a misalignment in a Bat that isn't there. Besides, not knowing to what tolerance they are attempting to true it. Within??? what??? On the actions I've made, I use a lot of similar processed to what Bat uses (on the major machining). I don't broach mine, I drill them, but it's just a hole. When finished, they are straight within less tolerance than I can every hope to fix. Could I measure an issue? Ehhh, sometimes. Can I "fix" it. No, but I bet I could sure screw it up more!

Then too, if somebody WANTS to pay for whatever, more power to em. I concede, I also paid for EDM'd raceways cause the marketing said they were smoother and it made sense. But then I saw the light and realized that the EDM process was being used to tout the super technology in the action and it was basically all bs. The raceways were nice and everything else was as poorly done as could be. All the tools in the world won't make a mechanic. In fact, sometimes it does the opposite.
 
Wow!
Guys I guess Borden, Pierce, Stiller and others are pulling a scam on us in marketing their receivers. I found out they are preaching this to hide their ineptness in building receivers. Man, Have I been a fool!
Butch
 
Butch Lambert said:
Wow!
Guys I guess Borden, Pierce, Stiller and others are pulling a scam on us in marketing their receivers. I found out they are preaching this to hide their ineptness in building receivers. Man, Have I been a fool!
Butch
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Butch, I don't think anyone is saying anyone is pulling a scam. I know I'm not. What I am saying is that if a shooter is buying a new action, from anyone, it is not a bad idea to have it checked by one of the gunsmiths that know what and how to look for on a custom action before they pour a few thousand dollars in barrels and bullets.

I'll not mention them on here but I know one of your buddies who had their made-in-2009 actions (two of them) that needed reworking in two functional areas, extraction and firing pin optimization. Another of your buddies had scope bases that did not fit the action profile.
 
zini72 said:
Hi guys, have two new BAT actions (M & MB) and was going to use my local gunsmith to puth the two rifles together (6BR & 7RSAUM). My gunsmith is very compitent with rem700 actions but has never put together a rifle using a BAT. His question to me was:
"is the action perfect out of the box, or do I need to do some truing/squaring,thread chasing,etc.?"
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You need to find a different/better riflesmith. He shouldn't be asking you that question.
 
Jerry S.,
Read 4mesh post. He bought a wired receiver. The raceways were great but it hid a poorly made receiver. My Bat was broached, but someway or another it had a problem. Dwight Scott had to redo the firing pin assembly. I figured since it had broached raceways it didn't have any hidden problems that needed addressing. I'm just part of the Great Unwashed Raggedy Ass Masses.
Butch
 
For the vast majority of the shooting fraternity, custom actions don't need no stinking work on them. But when you're a BR competitor, every little bit of accuracy needs to be squeezed out of your platform. Whether its the 2 gun at the SS, or 3 gun at the Nationals, most of the time, a few thousandths separates First place from 2nd. When you are competing against the TB's of the world, you had better have your ducks in a row. Most of the shooters that frequent these forums do not compete in this circuit and probably haven't heard much talk about "improving" custom actions. I can assure you that this stuff isn't a bunch of hot air. If you want to be competitive at the local/regional matches, then most likely your action is probably fine just as it came from the manufacturer. But if you want to beat the likes of Jack Neary at the Nationals, you can't leave anything on the table. Not every action needs fixing, but if the action isn't checked out, you'll never know if your gun is shooting to its full potential.
 
I'm firmly with Phil on this one. I see exactly where he's standing.


and a bunch of the rest of you'se, are you TRYING to make this hard???

The guy ("gunsmith") shouldn't have had to ask the question!

In the first place .....HOW's the CUSTOMER supposed to answer??? "Yup, I want you to check the make sure that the raceways are within .0001 for parallel (I think you use an air-gauge for this?) and true them up if they're out.... need to make sure they're perpendicular to the boltface too." "Oh, and while you're at it..." If the gunsmith expects his customer to know the answer to his question, why would they be needing each other

And in the second place ......I don't care how good you are (REALLY are) you don't know if an action's gonna' shoot until it does. Or doesn't. I'd just like to meet the guy who can "true up an action to make Tony Boyer (another complete irrelevancy!) happy...."

And thirdly ..... Why keep throwing in all this completely irrelevant firing control crap? Or worse yet, making the inference that "some folks make a tidy living" just fixing (aligning?) BATs!!



I don't normally use winter as an excuse but this whole thread looks like a team of friends who've been stuck in the locker room juust a leeeedle too loong!

nitfrickin'picky eh!!!

LOL

al
 
Hal D. said:
For the vast majority of the shooting fraternity, custom actions don't need no stinking work on them. But when you're a BR competitor, every little bit of accuracy needs to be squeezed out of your platform. Whether its the 2 gun at the SS, or 3 gun at the Nationals, most of the time, a few thousandths separates First place from 2nd. When you are competing against the TB's of the world, you had better have your ducks in a row. Most of the shooters that frequent these forums do not compete in this circuit and probably haven't heard much talk about "improving" custom actions. I can assure you that this stuff isn't a bunch of hot air. If you want to be competitive at the local/regional matches, then most likely your action is probably fine just as it came from the manufacturer. But if you want to beat the likes of Jack Neary at the Nationals, you can't leave anything on the table. Not every action needs fixing, but if the action isn't checked out, you'll never know if your gun is shooting to its full potential.
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Thanks darlin'. I was hoping for some backup!!!
 
alinwa said:
each other

.....I don't care how good you are (REALLY are) you don't know if an action's gonna' shoot until it does. Or doesn't. I'd just like to meet the guy who can "true up an action to make Tony Boyer (another complete irrelevancy!) happy...."

And thirdly ..... Why keep throwing in all this completely irrelevant firing control crap? Or worse yet, making the inference that "some folks make a tidy living" just fixing (aligning?) BATs!!




nitfrickin'picky eh!!!

LOL

al
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Wow, another genius that is telling Tony B what's important!!

Mr B has 147 HOF points, the guy in 2nd place has 42 and he is a darned good shooter.

How many points you got genius!!!
 
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