Barrel Tuners

Of the tuners I have mounted

Jim Borden said:
Yes there is experience with gene Begg's Tuner, Butch Lambert Tuner, Jim Borden Tuner, Jackie Schmidt tuner, Calfee tuner, etc.

I have used my own, Butch's and gene's. They all work. In fact my barrels are threaded so I can go back and forth between mine and the One I have that Butch made me-both work--but with different load. Butch's tuner id in front of the muzzle and from my experience it took smaller adjustments to make a change in tune than mine which is behind the muzzle. Just different strokes for different folks. The bottom line is the science works. Just take a look at the different ones and decide which one you wish to use and spend the time putting bullets down the barrel and figure one out.

No need for any of us to get all worked up about it.

Jim
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Jim's is the best one for the rifle and barrel it is on and I assume would work the same on any other barrel. My only complaint with it is astetics; dang, they are "Plain Lookin", ain't they? A little knurling somewhere would mebby dress her up a little, eh? Or made from Stainless a bit bigger if necessary but Brass on SS ! Well, I guess it's becomes a matter of taste but I prefer the behind the muzzle so far for CF rifles and as I said, Like Jim's.
 
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Boyd
I have yet to get into the 6ppc game but when I do my gun will be wearing a tuner and I would be suprised if it weighed less than 6 ounces set-up like Bill Calfee does it out in front.
I will be using a Borden action Jewell trigger McMillan Edge stock and a fixed power Leupold scope.All of my ammo will be pre-loaded as well and the seating depth will go unchanged.I will probaly shoot sacramento and visalia so you can check it out for yourself firsthand if your the Boyd from southern cal.

Jackie Schmidt
You didn't say if my guess about your railgun barrel was close or not but my 1.450 barrel has 21 inches passed the bedding material in the barrel block and it took just over 3 pounds to get it settled down for a very fast string.I am using a tuner off of a 22 rimfire unlimited gun and yes it is heavier than 48 ounces even when it was on a 22 rimfire.I ran the weight all the way to 5 pounds or 80 ounces before making my final decision.
Waterboy
 
Lynn

I use a 1.450 diameter 22 1/2 inch long barrel on my Rail, 2 inches sticking out the back, and a 6 1/2 inch long barrel block. That leaves 14 inches sticking out of the block.

I did away with the delren isolator sleeve, and started lapping the barrel into the V- block, after lightly skinning it dead true and round. I secure it with only 75 inch pounds of torque on the bolts.........jackie
 
Jackie just a curious question

You mentioned "lightly skinning it dead true and round", you know how ignorant I can be but on one hand I always figured the barrels were dead true and round and on the other hand since I didnt know for sure I often wondered if there could be anything gained in accuracy from turning the whole barrel dead true and round.
I figure like most things that probably not and that someone else has already tried it.
Enlighten me please.
 
Lynn

Lynn said:
Boyd
I have yet to get into the 6ppc game but when I do my gun will be wearing a tuner and I would be suprised if it weighed less than 6 ounces set-up like Bill Calfee does it out in front.
I will be using a Borden action Jewell trigger McMillan Edge stock and a fixed power Leupold scope.All of my ammo will be pre-loaded as well and the seating depth will go unchanged.I will probaly shoot sacramento and visalia so you can check it out for yourself firsthand if your the Boyd from southern cal.

Jackie Schmidt
You didn't say if my guess about your railgun barrel was close or not but my 1.450 barrel has 21 inches passed the bedding material in the barrel block and it took just over 3 pounds to get it settled down for a very fast string.I am using a tuner off of a 22 rimfire unlimited gun and yes it is heavier than 48 ounces even when it was on a 22 rimfire.I ran the weight all the way to 5 pounds or 80 ounces before making my final decision.
Waterboy
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Looks like the message from you is plan the rifle around a tuner big enough to Stop the muzzle ?
 
Nothing was said

about the Ammunition. Seems to me that we find that Ammunition makes a huge difference of our rifles. Wonder if they try different lots of ammo during these tests?
 
I have forgetten to mention this...

We use the Gene Beggs tuner exclusively here. It is a nicely done tuner and is is relativley easy to install and simple in it's use. Gene has Donated a Tuner to The Prize draw for the IBS Score Nationals. For donating to the sport, and (giving back to the community) we commend him!

But I also should Say, Butch Lambert has done the same. He has donated a beautifly made tuner to the IBS Score Nationals as well. In turn giving back to the community. We commend anybody that does that. I have had it in my hands and given it a good look over (and of course put it back into the donated items box). I have not used a Butch Lambert (Shade Tree Engineering) Tuner, But if I didn't allready have 8 Beggs tuners I would give it a try, It is nice (Those Dog gone Texans make some nice stuff). Who knows, I may give one a try soon, maybe on the next barrel.

Three things I would mention about the Butch Lambert tuner when compaired to the Gene Beggs tuner. These three things could mean Nothing, or they could Mean everything depends where you are on the subject. First; The Beggs tuner is 4 ounces, the Lambert is 5.8 total package yet only about 3.5 onces move, (more weight room has to be made with a LV). Second; The Lambert tuner puts the weight to be moved in front of the crown, The Beggs is behind the crown (some say that is a novel concept). Third; The Lambert tuner has a Tube in front of the crown, that the Beggs does not have (Does this tube constrict the gasses and debris that are supposed to be cleared by the crown?) Who knows, as I say, I have not tried it yet.

Paul
 
Pete

I don't know if they tried different ammo or not. I would only assume they used some sort of "standard" ball ammo and were able to realize an improvement in accuracy...maybe like we have seen...a wider tune window:confused:. I don't think they are after quite the same level of precision that we are but the concept may well be something worth experimenting with. They do mention something along the lines of a "stilled" muzzle. Just thinking:rolleyes:--Mike Ezell
 
Vern
On my big guns the 1.450 barrels gets bedded with J-B Weld for 100% contact and so your not wicking away all the heat into the all aluminum stocks.You quickly find out very few if any 1.450 barrels are actually 1.450.I suspect Jackie is cleaning them up with a light cut so each one is a mirror image of an earlier one.

Pete
I take it from reading Jackies post that adding the tuner too his rail gave it a bad vibration when running the gun fast.He thought it most likely was the stop causing the problem but if the gun shot well when run fast without the tuner I would suspect the tuner was actually too light and not too heavy as most would conclude.I put a 1.450 barrel into my slave block at 14 inches last night and it needed alot more weight.You can add your tuner ring the barrel and pinch the muzzle between your fingers to get the weight very close.
A guy I shoot longrange with John Crawford has me almost convinced to do the 100 200 yard stuff.I am putting a 6ppc barrel on my lightgun and will play with that barrel and a tuner to see what it requires then build a gun dedicated for the sport and give it a go.
it will be set-up Calfee style because I don't want to say "Stopped".
Waterboy
 
Lynn,
According to the definition of that sort of set up, would that mean that once a setting was found for a particular distance, that neither the ammunition nor the tuner should have to be adjusted for changes in conditions?
 
Boyd
For longrange shooting the tuner is set for either 600 or 1,000 yards and nothing gets changed for the match.At this years NBRSA 600 Yard Nationals I set the 3 plus pound tuner on thursday and shot it all the way through sunday and finished 6th in group and 6th in score.I should have finished higher in each but did too much thinking and thus ended up were I did.
I went by what I was told from the pits as to my setting and there was a little confusion on what I was looking for.I should have had somebody else fire the gun while I pulled the targets and chose the setting.I am not saying the gun wasn't tuned right just that there was alot of confusion on what I was after.
The 600 yard setting is not the same as the 100 yard setting.
In 100 yard testing I have not had to change anything once I have the tuner set for that particular day.Unfortnately that has only been tested on my local range were it is generaly 55 degrees and windy.We shoot about 4 miles from the ocean and that could cause the conditions I see to remain too constant.

I am not making any predictions for the 6ppc.I will report what I actually see.
Waterboy
 
mwezell said:
If you care to read through it, this is interesting stuff from declassified military designs pertaining to muzzle devices made to dampen vibration to improve accuracy. It might get some of our "wheels" turning on this subject even more.--Mike Ezell

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA399323&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
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Good find, Mike. One thing I noticed was that the gun they tested fired a shot every 0.1 sec. Even at this fast rate, the muzzle vibrations had mostly, though not entirely, died out by the time the next shot was fired (Figure 18). For a BR rifle fired at least ten times slower, it seems unlikely that any significant muzzle motion would be left over. Yet Jackie's rail didn't shoot well with a tuner when fired rapidly. Curious results, unless Jackie's rail has much less damping.

Sure wish they had reported how they measured muzzle motion, as in Figure 18.

Cheers,
Keith
 
Keith

mks said:
Good find, Mike. One thing I noticed was that the gun they tested fired a shot every 0.1 sec. Even at this fast rate, the muzzle vibrations had mostly, though not entirely, died out by the time the next shot was fired (Figure 18). For a BR rifle fired at least ten times slower, it seems unlikely that any significant muzzle motion would be left over. Yet Jackie's rail didn't shoot well with a tuner when fired rapidly. Curious results, unless Jackie's rail has much less damping.

Sure wish they had reported how they measured muzzle motion, as in Figure 18.

Cheers,
Keith
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I too thought it was very interesting,and at the very least a good read. Tuners aren't new, just pretty new to me I guess.---Mike Ezell
 
mks said:
Curious results, unless Jackie's rail has much less damping.
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An interesting possibility is that the barrel and tuner have the same natural frequency as the base, turning the rifle into a tuning fork. Vibrations in tuning forks damp out very slowly. This was the topic of a earlier thread.
 
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