barrel contour

I am talking to

you Mike,

When I posted about how you can know with certainty what to do with a tuner you had came back some snide comments about how hard I was making this. And now you come back with the results I was getting years ago. The results you are getting are good, it's not that. When you start out with MY tuner why not just place a full page add. I gotten the same results with your tuner and a host of other ones. I understand you sell tuners, I do not have any vested interest in anybodys tuner. I do this for the interest of the sport and people. So be whatever, it's just that way, I can read in-between the lines from your first post. Just let it go.

Richard
 
Richard said:
you Mike,

When I posted about how you can know with certainty what to do with a tuner you had came back some snide comments about how hard I was making this. And now you come back with the results I was getting years ago. The results you are getting are good, it's not that. When you start out with MY tuner why not just place a full page add. I gotten the same results with your tuner and a host of other ones. I understand you sell tuners, I do not have any vested interest in anybodys tuner. I do this for the interest of the sport and people. So be whatever, it's just that way, I can read in-between the lines from your first post. Just let it go.

Richard
Click to expand...

Apparently, you wont even agree to agree, then. Lol! It's also apparent that you haven't been paying attention for years. Why are you now?
You could just not bother reading or replying.
Your posts are focussed on attacking me rather than bringing anything of value to the discussion. Please be constructive and positive. Thanks in advance.
 
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Mike,

I'll get back to you. Have to leave for awhile. Sorry for being such a grump, I also have invested a tremendous amount of time with tuners and I know you have to. I think were on the same page with a lot of this tuner stuff. I'll just leave it at that for now.

Richard
 
Richard said:
I'll get back to you. Have to leave for awhile. Sorry for being such a grump, I also have invested a tremendous amount of time with tuners and I know you have to. I think were on the same page with a lot of this tuner stuff. I'll just leave it at that for now.

Richard
Click to expand...

No need. The bickering is getting old. But please do offer something good to this thread. I know you've got a lot of good experience that you could share here.
 
Hope the original OP

got his questions answered. On to tuners,

This is what I have seen over the years, your results may differ somewhat but would guess by not much.
The tuners tested all showed the same basic tuning window in for-aft movement. .005-.006 half node or .010-.012 full node. Was there a better node to be in? Not really that I could find and I think you could wear a bbl out searching.
A important part of learning the tuner is understanding where you are in the node. You cannot predict how to turn the tuner unless you understand that concept. Think about tuning with powder. Some say you need to go up on powder when you have Vertical, others say that you need to decrease powder to get rid of vertical. In reality both are correct both tuning from opposite nodes. It's the same for tuners. I tune where the group gets tighter as you turn the tuner toward the breech, if the group gets larger I know that it's just opposite of where it want to be. The other way is fine also. The point being you need to know where your at to make good tuning decisions. As far as running the tuner goes it really is that simple.
Once you have mastered that part, where you can actually turn the tuner with no guess work your well on the way to learning the next very important thing which is tuning for the condition out on the range.
One other thing that needs to be mentioned because I see it so many when giving lessons here at Charlene's Meadow.
Just because the tune is right today, does not mean that it will be tomorrow. What can be hard for some to grasp is the gun might be on the opposite node the next day and the tuner is not doing what they expect. It's not hard to fix once you realize what is happening. But can be very frustrating for a new tuner user. If there is no practice before a match starts I always take the time on the sighter to be sure the tuner is one the node I want. That way you will make sound decisions during the match.
Practice practice practice. When giving lessons I will sometimes give the tuner a big twist and then start the clock. It gives shooters a feel for the timeline pressure that you can sometimes be under when things aren't working.
Again, this is just the experience I have had over the years and hope this helps tuner users.
There are other things that will come into play as you gain more experience but that is out of the scope of basic tuner use.

Richard
 
For what it is worth, I have had a tad of experience with tuners. More than 10 years ago, we tried one on a friends Young Rail Gun. I even made a write up on our experience on this Site.

It had a 1.450 barrel. I made a 20 ounce snubber tuner for it, just a scaled up version of my tuner we use on bag guns.

It deadened the barrel quite well.

At the range, we got his Rail shooting quite well. He then decided to run a group as fast as he could cycle the Action and put it against the stop.

The groups were abysmal. .300+ wads. He slowed down, the thing shot dots.

By theory was the barrel simply was not settling after hitting the stop. You could feel the vibration as it hit the stop.

I figure it took at least one second after hitting the stop to allow it to settle.

We then removed the tuner, and ran a group as fast as he could. The Rail did not shoot quite as well sans the tuner as with when shooting slow, but it shot just as good running the group.

I have not had a tuner on a Rail since. I might try agin in the future, though.

I am open for suggestions
 
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I have a really

good bbl on my rail at the moment and will shoot small either running or picking. I made beggs style tuner that weighs 8 oz and it tunes just like the bag guns do. A fellow sent me a tuner to try that weighed 16oz. It would tune very well and shot great shooting slow. Running groups were not that great, just like you I don't think the bbl had enough time to settle down with that much weight hanging on the front. Why don't you try a tuner in the 8-10oz range and see what you get. I am running a 1.350 bbl for your info so that might change things some but don't know that for a fact.

Richard
 
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Richard said:
got his questions answered. On to tuners,

This is what I have seen over the years, your results may differ somewhat but would guess by not much.
The tuners tested all showed the same basic tuning window in for-aft movement. .005-.006 half node or .010-.012 full node. Was there a better node to be in? Not really that I could find and I think you could wear a bbl out searching.
A important part of learning the tuner is understanding where you are in the node. You cannot predict how to turn the tuner unless you understand that concept. Think about tuning with powder. Some say you need to go up on powder when you have Vertical, others say that you need to decrease powder to get rid of vertical. In reality both are correct both tuning from opposite nodes. It's the same for tuners. I tune where the group gets tighter as you turn the tuner toward the breech, if the group gets larger I know that it's just opposite of where it want to be. The other way is fine also. The point being you need to know where your at to make good tuning decisions. As far as running the tuner goes it really is that simple.
Once you have mastered that part, where you can actually turn the tuner with no guess work your well on the way to learning the next very important thing which is tuning for the condition out on the range.
One other thing that needs to be mentioned because I see it so many when giving lessons here at Charlene's Meadow.
Just because the tune is right today, does not mean that it will be tomorrow. What can be hard for some to grasp is the gun might be on the opposite node the next day and the tuner is not doing what they expect. It's not hard to fix once you realize what is happening. But can be very frustrating for a new tuner user. If there is no practice before a match starts I always take the time on the sighter to be sure the tuner is one the node I want. That way you will make sound decisions during the match.
Practice practice practice. When giving lessons I will sometimes give the tuner a big twist and then start the clock. It gives shooters a feel for the timeline pressure that you can sometimes be under when things aren't working.
Again, this is just the experience I have had over the years and hope this helps tuner users.
There are other things that will come into play as you gain more experience but that is out of the scope of basic tuner use.

Richard
Click to expand...

Richard, excellent post. Thank you and we apparently agree way more than not. That's a good thing, I believe, At least we're pulling in the same direction.

As for groups opening up running vs picking, I will only add a couple of things to consider rather than saying one is right and one is wrong.
I shot some rf for a while where it's common to see 24"x .850-.900 straight barrels with 8-11 ounces tuners being pretty common. When you close the bolt, you can literally watch the barrel bounce!
Second is in regard to when vibration starts. I believe it starts even before the firing pin hits the primer and then..we have a 65,000 psi pressure vessel under great tension, that does indeed induce a whipping action from the barrel. The speed of sound/vibration through stainless is roughly 20,000 fps, so even the vibration of the firing pin hitting the primer will travel back and forth several times before the bullet even leaves the case..then we have that 65,000psi pressure wave traveling down the bore.

Just things to ponder that may or may not be relevant, but I believe they are worth consideration.
 
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