Are all Ball powders Temp sensitive ?

W

Worker

New member
I found a nice load for my 270 WSM 74grs of Magpro behind a 140 gr Berger VLD. Produces 3250 FPS. Problem is its a max load in 60 degree winter weather,how will it perform in 85 degree weather ?
 
Ball Powder

Worker
It is my understanding that Winchester makes and stores its ball powder under water. This procedure makes ball powder not temp sensitive in later loading use.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
Are all Ball powders Temp sensitive?

I use W748 in both a .223 and 6mm BR and velocity drops dramatically with temperature. I used BL(C2) in my .308 and had an excellent load until I hit 90 degrees and then I had to pry the bolt handle up. I've had pressure problems with H335 too. I've been using Ramshot powders, but can't say I've noticed much difference from day to day, but haven't been chronographing much since I started using them. I'm not saying all ball powder is temperature sensitive, but the ones I've used (except Ramshot?) are more sensitive than Varget or IMR4064. I hope to get my hands on some IMR 8208 XBR soon. nhk
 
I've tested 16 powders for temperature sensitivity by heat and cold soaking them and it is my opinion that ALL powders are temperature sensitive including VARget and the new "magic powder" RL-17. Ball powders I've tested are H-380, Ramshot Magnum, Magpro and the faster Alliant and Winchester powders.

I recently tested H380 and found 100fps loss at 10*F and a 75fps gain at 110*F from a median temp of 75 degrees for a 2900fps load.

In my opinion 85* up from 60* loading is "probably" still safe but 85* and left setting on a table in the sun is lockup city! :)

al
 
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So my load that is absolute max at ...

Absolute max at 60 degrees ,will it lock up my rifle up at 80 degrees ? ( 74grs of Magpro 140 gr Berger VLD )
 
Worker said:
Absolute max at 60 degrees ,will it lock up my rifle up at 80 degrees ? ( 74grs of Magpro 140 gr Berger VLD )
Click to expand...

If I were to guess? I'd say no to lockup but you could definitely wreck your brass.

In my recent .270WSM workup I chose to use another powder so I didn't specifically test your combination for temp but in my opinion the 140's max'd at 3250 and I chose to drop to around 3100fps for an all-round hunting load because if one were hunting in 80-90 degree weather and the rifle were exposed to direct sunlight the POWDER temp could easily be hotter.....And those rounds have the bullet hanging 'wayyy down into the powder chamber. (see pic below of the 130 Barnes VS the 150 NBtip) Incidentally these two bullets just define the .270WSM IMO. Get the 130 at 3200 and the 150 at 3000 and the two rounds will essentially match trajectories clear out to 600yds where energy finally falls under a ton. You can practice w/the NBt's and hunt with the Barnes and it's all automatic.


For testing the temp thing...


What I do is stick 3rds in front of a heater for several hours and shoot them with a Napa spot thermometer. I dunno how these things work but you just point and click to get a reading.

I also stick three rounds into the freezer overnite and shoot them over the chrono. The results are less than scientific but still enlightening.

Regarding the 80 degrees with a 60degree load...... I've lost too many cases at matches, in the dogpatch or after driving 2-3hrs to get to a 1000yd vantage........... or hunting another state. I just shoot for 50-75fps under my personal maximums....... and my personal maximum is that point where the load will not expand primer pockets.

I shoot at home and when I find a maximum load I then drop about 40fps "just because" and another 50fps for temp variation. Then I try to tune...... it really sucks when the tune wants to be UP...... And I'm not afraid to go DOWN.... and if it gets too far down??? then I change powder :D

Here's a weird thing...... FOR ME it commonly happens that I'll shoot for hours playing around at maximum velocity. Maybe I'll do it again the next day...... and then I'll load up some rounds "in case I see a coyote" or whatever. A few days/weeks/months later I'll fire one and WHAM!!! Shave a halfmoon right off the casehead or even leak a primer.

I have no idea why.

I leave my working guns fouled at the end of the day, I don't have any weird oiling/greasing/prep'ing regimens....... but I always drop about 40fps off max "just because."

I think that for anything but the PPC tuning depends a lot on luck and perseverance. I don't know any tricks although good equipment sure makes it easier to use the "ladder" or sine wave methods.

Your Mileage May Vary :)

al
 

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al,

How do you carry your ammo?

Hereabouts, we occasionally hear about disfunctional people leaving pets & kids locked in cars, with more or less severe to terminal effects. We're warned that incar temperatures can get up above 60C (140 your currency) - that's in the passenger compartment or the trunk.

Because of that I carry all my bang in suitable sized picnic coolers or similar insulated boxes & largely avoid temperature spikes.

John
 
Ton of energy

My energy tables list 140gr with a BC of .487 starting at 3250 has just under a ton of energy at 400 yds........ Lose primer pockets several of my cases have that. I still load them they don't fall out.
 
Worker said:
My energy tables list 140gr with a BC of .487 starting at 3250 has just under a ton of energy at 400 yds........ Lose primer pockets several of my cases have that. I still load them they don't fall out.
Click to expand...

You are completely right..... I use RCBS load for my ballistic printouts and I was mis-remembering energy and fps.... the fps is just under 2000 NOT THE ENERGY.

Good catch.

al
 
John Kielly said:
al,

How do you carry your ammo?

Hereabouts, we occasionally hear about disfunctional people leaving pets & kids locked in cars, with more or less severe to terminal effects. We're warned that incar temperatures can get up above 60C (140 your currency) - that's in the passenger compartment or the trunk.

Because of that I carry all my bang in suitable sized picnic coolers or similar insulated boxes & largely avoid temperature spikes.

John
Click to expand...

I keep my ammo at good temps and we live in a very temperate area. Average temp is 65F and we very rarely see 100F Hot rounds are never a problem here.

That said, for matches I have a cooler.

al
 
Al, you have got to take it easy.....

Telling people that Varget is temp sensitive may may cause their heads to explode, imagine hearing that on the Fox News Channel.....
"Reloaders Heads are Exploding all across America"!

Hee Hee!
 
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