ARA or IR50/50 which to choose??

R

RegisG

Guest
BACKGROUND:
It looks like we will be able to start rimfire benchrest at Strategic Edge range (south of Nashville). I have experience shooting (not managing) both ARA & PSL matches in past years but never been near an IR50/50 match. I know of only about 5 rimfire benchrest shooters in this area and they all must travel to matches. There is some interest in rimfire bechrest and rimfire tactical at our range, mostly because we have pretty high levels of both matches in centerfire.

QUESTION(s):
Is anyone here willing to give a short summary of the differences between ARA & IR50/50? How about any particular advantages for getting started in a new area?
Or, is it better to just pick a target type and try to start to build local interest without any structure like that provided by these 2 organizations?
If you are an ARA shooter within a couple hours drive, would you travel to shoot in an IR50/50 match? Or would you only go to an ARA match?
I believe the closest IR50/50 match is a few hours east at Bristol, Va. And, the closest ARA matches are near Bowling Green, Ky. and Chattanooga, Tn.

I do expect that it is a good idea to have some quality competition to help grow local benchrest interest. Therefore; it would be good to attract additional competing benchrest shooters.

Appreciate any tips or advice.
Thanks,
Regis
 
I was an IR50/50 match director for a number of years. I have no experience with ARA, however I did shoot BR50 many years ago. If you decide to go with IR50/50 I'd suggest that you hold Unlimited Match's. That'll save you a lot of headaches trying to explain the rules for the different weight classes. By going with Unlimited you can let people shoot pretty much any rifle & you won't have to weight the rifles & fuss with a lot of small details. Good luck.
 
Go to their respective web sites,everything you want as far as rules,targets can be found there.
If you have a few interested shooters as potential customers, maybe you want to survey them.
 
glynn angle said:
I was an IR50/50 match director for a number of years. I have no experience with ARA, however I did shoot BR50 many years ago. If you decide to go with IR50/50 I'd suggest that you hold Unlimited Match's. That'll save you a lot of headaches trying to explain the rules for the different weight classes. By going with Unlimited you can let people shoot pretty much any rifle & you won't have to weight the rifles & fuss with a lot of small details. Good luck.
Click to expand...

And, I was thinking that having sporter class would be a way for folk to get started. But, I expect that you are right as I would have enough to do without adding multiple classes.
Thank you for that tip,
Regis
 
tim said:
Go to their respective web sites,everything you want as far as rules,targets can be found there.
If you have a few interested shooters as potential customers, maybe you want to survey them.
Click to expand...

I have read them all. But, I will take your advice and ask.

Thanks,
Regis
 
RegisG said:
And, I was thinking that having sporter class would be a way for folk to get started. But, I expect that you are right as I would have enough to do without adding multiple classes.
Thank you for that tip,
Regis
Click to expand...

With 50/50 unlimited you can shoot anything including sporters. If you go with 3 gun matches your factory sporter guys will get discouraged when a real sporter shows up. Most people don't realize that a sporter is a full blown custom bench rifle, it just meets a different set of specs. That is not to say you can't shoot and have fun with whatever you have, just be aware that it can turn into an equipment race.

Good luck. Keep us posted.


Ken
 
I have only been exposed to and participate in ARA.
In ARA, if someone shoots a 2500, (all bullseyes), its rare. Based upon what I've read, in IR50, if someone shoots a 250 (all bullseyes) its not rare.

How many bullseyes do you see here?

aravsir50.jpg

In ARA only one counts as a bulseye.
In IR50 all of them count as bullseyes.

Once you've "touched" all the bullseyes in IR50, the number of X's in the middle that are "touched" is what decides who wins. It all depends upon what trips your trigger.

Hoot
 
Shootenhoot said:
I have only been exposed to and participate in ARA.
In ARA, if someone shoots a 2500, (all bullseyes), its rare. Based upon what I've read, in IR50, if someone shoots a 250 (all bullseyes) its not rare.

How many bullseyes do you see here?

View attachment 17444

In ARA only one counts as a bulseye.
In IR50 all of them count as bullseyes.

Once you've "touched" all the bullseyes in IR50, the number of X's in the middle that are "touched" is what decides who wins. It all depends upon what trips your trigger.

Hoot
Click to expand...

You're giving bad info Shootenhoot. Perhaps you should talk to someone who shoots IR5050 and not rely on second-hand info.

The scoring for ARA and IR50/50 differ in many ways. That's what makes the two targets interesting. First, there are no "bullseyes" in either ARA or IR50/50. There are just points (plus X's in IR5050).

ARA is worst-edge scoring and IR50/50 is best-edge. That means that your score for each shot in ARA depends on where the back edge of the bullet hole touches (or doesn't) touch. The best score for each shot is a 100 (what you called a bullseye).

The best score for each shot in IR5050 is a 10 and as you said if it touches the X you also get an X for that shot.

Your IR5050 scoring for your posted 5 targets is way off. The first 3 shots are all clear 9's in IR5050. That means that if you get a 10 on every remaining shot for that target the best you can get is a score of 247. Maybe last place.

2500's are not what I'd call rare. I see results quite often with them. They are excellent targets and I hope one day to shoot one but, again, comparing the best target possible between IR505 and ARA is foolish. I've seen 2500 targets that would be a 250-20x in IR5050. A good score but nothing "perfect" about it in IR505/50. How many "perfect" targets (250-25X) have been shot in IR5050? 2. One indoor and 1 outdoor.

To sum up each target has it's interesting points. IR5050 has a little more lenient 10 ring than the 100 ring in ARA. But you can miss a shot (or several) in ARA and still come out on top. If you shoot a 9 in IR5050 you're probably done.

One other point is that the IR5050 has a target is far easier to score by hand in my opinion. The ARA is a blu target and the edges seem a little soft under a loupe. The IR505 targets are black very crisp. It's immediately apparent when plugging this target if it "touches" or not. Since ARA is worst edge you have two arcs going the same way (instead of opposing in IR5050) combined with that blue ring and it's much harder.

To the original poster I'd recommend that he find a way to get to each kind of match and see what works for him.
 
The targets and the scoring rules aside, they are both tough targets for a .22 at fifty yards.

I have shot and scored both ARA and IR50/50. I prefer to shoot 50/50 because the scoring method seems more logical to me.

That being said, I also like shooting ARA. It really does not matter what target I shoot. I have found that most shooters will shoot either and have just as much fun.

Concho Bill
 
Appreciate you educating me on the scoring detail difference (best vs worst edge).
That did not jump out at me....would have if I actually shot and scored though.

Thanks,
Regis
 
You could get in at the ground floor.

If you are just starting and most of your shooters are new to 22 benchrest shooting, you might consider shooting with similar automatic 22's. Autobenchrestassociation.com We shoot with simi-automatic 22's. This was started in the San Antonio two years ago and they will be starting their third year soon. There are eight clubs in six states this year. Contestants shoot in two classes, factory and unliminited. It is a lot of fun and Ruger style 22 can be made to shoot very good. Some will shoot better than most custom bolt guns. "It's not bragging if you can do it." Another fact is that a tricked out 10/22 is cheaper than a custom bolt gun.

Our club in San Angelo, Texas, is shooting both ABRA and 50/50 this year as is the club in San Antonio..
 
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Shoot All Three

Good Morning Regis,

First I want to say it's good to hear of a new group of shooters wanting to get together and enjoy this crazy little game of putting holes in paper with these little lead throwers.
I shoot out of Boerne Shooting Club north of San Antonio, TX and we shoot all 3 of the games mentioned so far ARA, IR50/50(Unlimited) and ABRA.
I personally enjoy all of them and although each may have there small differences it's all still the same, putting holes in paper and enjoying hanging out with other sportsmen, or ladies:)
As Bill mentioned ABRA is the newer kid on the block and is based on semi auto 22's with the 10/22 being the predominate rifle used. Joe and Lisa Chacon started it with the concept of getting folks interested in shooting benchrest and the fact that there's millions of semi autos out there and giving folks something other to do than shooting tin cans. There's a big following of those who trick out these 10/22's and this gives them the chance to see how they stack up against others doing the same.
Now with that said the other assoc. ARA and IR50/50 are lead by a couple of great people who promote this sport Dan K. and Wayne W.
You'll run into the higher dollar custom bolt guns in these assoc. but as I tell everyone who starts out focus on your game and not worry about what others are doing. Some mention the cost but that also is dependent on how much one wants to spend or keep spending. I'm using the same rest and flags I purchased back in 2008 and my current bolt rifle I purchased in 2010. Since then the main cost has been feeding ammo and compared to other sporting activities I've done in my life it's still cheaper to do this game.
Anyway, good luck in getting organized 22 benchrest started at your club.

Les Williams
 
Glynn Angle makes a good point for starters. ARA and IR5050 (unlimited) allow the same rifles - any rifle. Why not shoot both for a while and see which one does best? You may get a couple more competitors at one and not the other. Yeah, I know why not but wrote that in case you were really, really, really "gung ho".
 
Wilbur said:
Glynn Angle makes a good point for starters. ARA and IR5050 (unlimited) allow the same rifles - any rifle. Why not shoot both for a while and see which one does best? You may get a couple more competitors at one and not the other. Yeah, I know why not but wrote that in case you were really, really, really "gung ho".
Click to expand...

Excellent advice!
 
Regis

All make good points, just being able to get together with friends, and meeting new people makes it all worth it. We shoot ABRA, IR 50/50 and ARA in Boerne Texas.
Wayne and Dan have been great to us and have even opened up their games to included semi-autos. So in my mind if you wanted to shoot you could do all three with a 10/22 style riffle with all the bells and whistles.
This would give you the opportunity to see which one you really like and that your group likes.

We at ABRA are all on the same page with Dan and Wayne. We want to see rimfire sport in general grow, no matter what sanction you choose.

ABRA set up and rig:
Brand New gun with scope $1,800.00
Front rest and rear rest $400.00
Wind Flags $160.00
AMMO $7.00 to $10.50 per box

This set up will help you ride with the big boys in ABRA and as well be competitive at a club level with ARA and IR 50/50. Just thought we would give you a little info.

Thank you
Joe and Lisa Chacon
 
RegisG said:
BACKGROUND:
It looks like we will be able to start rimfire benchrest at Strategic Edge range (south of Nashville). I have experience shooting (not managing) both ARA & PSL matches in past years but never been near an IR50/50 match. I know of only about 5 rimfire benchrest shooters in this area and they all must travel to matches. There is some interest in rimfire bechrest and rimfire tactical at our range, mostly because we have pretty high levels of both matches in centerfire.

QUESTION(s):
Is anyone here willing to give a short summary of the differences between ARA & IR50/50? How about any particular advantages for getting started in a new area?
Or, is it better to just pick a target type and try to start to build local interest without any structure like that provided by these 2 organizations?
If you are an ARA shooter within a couple hours drive, would you travel to shoot in an IR50/50 match? Or would you only go to an ARA match?
I believe the closest IR50/50 match is a few hours east at Bristol, Va. And, the closest ARA matches are near Bowling Green, Ky. and Chattanooga, Tn.

I do expect that it is a good idea to have some quality competition to help grow local benchrest interest. Therefore; it would be good to attract additional competing benchrest shooters.

Appreciate any tips or advice.
Thanks,
Regis
Click to expand...

I have and still shoot both. I find IR to be somewhat a more forgiving target. When I have got my act together, I have shot 250s with 16 to 20 Xs, usually average 248, while in ARA I have shot 2400, but I am usually in the 2000 to 2200 range, this is shooting inside on both. Neither one will win any matches. A slight miss of the X on a IR target will still get you a 10, while a slight miss on ARA will get you a 50.

Unless your range is going to hold sanctioned matches, why not use a variety of targets, IR, ARA, USBR, RBA ( a scaled down IR target ) and PSL. It keeps things interesting, some shooters just do better on different targets. I find PSL and USBR really difficult, but both will sharpen your skill level.

George
 
Triple Crown Format

If I was going to do a test run ,I would do like George said ,The Triple Crown format is as good as Match as there can be ! The only Drawback is the scoring by hand of the PSL ,which could be changed for the green USBR! Like George said, The ARA/PSL will sharpen everybody`s skill set ,but beginners like the Factory Class target with that Big 10 ring and 1/4" X which is most forgiving and does not run anybody off with their CZ`s & Anschutz 64`s!
 
I agree. I know several clubs that shoot both ARA and 50/50. The same people tend to shoot in both. It just gives them more opportunity.I also would highly recommend starting an ARBA club at the same time. If you have a lot of bench space you could shoot a bolt and auto match next to each other while building up attendance. It can add a little challenge between the two and up everyone's game while creating a more social atmosphere. One thing I like about the ARBA target is that it is deceptive and doesn't discourage new shooters. ARA with its' 100, 50, 25 scoring can be a real downer to a newbie shooting against people with experience. The auto target scores best edge with a roughly 1/2" 9 ring. Scoring a 10, however, requires that you touch a 1/8" dot. What this does is require a shot essentially an ARA 100 shot to score a 10, but awards a 9 for a shot that barely touches the first ring. The effect is that about any decent shooter/rifle can shoot around 180, but a 200 (perfect) is really, really hard. The top shooters will agg in the 190 to 195 range, but bunches of guys are shooting somewhere in the 180's. It makes new shooters feel like they are "close" and they keep coming back.
 
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