Al's Perfect LR BR action???

A

alinwa

oft dis'd member
6PPC's are easy but what does one do with a larger case? One which whips the assembly around like a terrier whipping a rat??

I absolutely LOVE the RB/LL/RE Panda with mechanical ejector but I'm convinced I simply cannot get the barrels tightened enough for large high-energy rounds. I've built and rebuilt, barreled and rebarreled, bedded and rebedded a Panda in 6X47L and 6.5CM 10 different ways in a known platform and can't get 'er to tighten up to crispness. I now have my "favorite action setup" on my rail gun.....where I don't need it!

I'm spec'ing for an 1.350 round action as IMO it offers the balance of strength-to-weight I'm interested in

Here are the things I consider important.

#1- I MUST be able to torque bbls to 150lb with an 1.350 shoulder and for this to happen the scope bases must be removable and the action must be configured to accept a grown-up action wrench. Torqueing an 1.2 shoulder will (does) visibly deform it. Torqueing an 1.25 while it's not visible, also resets sometimes...... and always will show advancement over several barrel changes which simply stated proves deformation empirically.

#2- For scope bases to be removable they MUST be pinned, and well pinned. I'm currently drilling 5 screw holes into the top of custom actions and screwing/gluing down a Browning base which is an incredible pita....... only because I've yet to monkey up an effective way to drill/ream fitted pin holes with my 75yr-old mill. My brand new Neuvo looks 20yrs-old already.

#3- The action MUST support a mechanical ejector. Kelbly's got this SO freakin' right!! The Panda R/L/R mechanical ejector setup is P E R F E C T except for it being a steel insert imbedded in bubble gum. (STILL perfect for liddle rounds... perhaps BEST)

#4- the action MUST be set up for Picatinny..... sorry, Davidson's aint in it altho pinning them _may_ help depending on depth of material to work with. This is a slippery slope as more "depth" as in taller assembly means longer torque moment arms. . . . . "terrier shaking a rat" . . . . .

#5- trigger hanger


There's more, a bunch more.... but these are my "must-haves"


Currently the closest thing I can conjure action-wise is the BAT 'DS' with milled recoil lug in the which I drill and add another 1/4X28 pulldown screw 'wayyy out on the fore end of the extended action ring........but it's missing a bunch of other features I need, and it's too short. My custom-ordered rollercam 'M' is an OK action but too awful frikkin' wikkid HEAVY for words. And I'm afraid of warping that soft BAT steel every time I vise 'er up. The rear-action wrench I custom ordered with it just melted like butter at well below 150ftlb.

I'm off to carve out yet another action wrench for the Neuvo..... 5th one ......
 
Action

AL -

Howdy !


Just wondering...... would you be able to configure a Wichita WBR1375 the way you want ? They are round, and 1.375" diam.
In their time, they were touted for their " stiffness "

I have a 20MOA Picatinney on mine, that Ken Farrel made for me. The scope base is not pinned to my action, but my recoil lug is.
I run an M-16 style extractor that Fred Sinclair installed for me. I use a trigger hanger.

Guess it wouldn't work for you, because of your loading/ejection port needs; et al.

Never mind.



With regards,
357Mag
 
"deformed" thread on torqueing...
can you prove it is the action and not the bbl ??/
that is an actual question
 
golden bear in black
brm-xd ??
i like torque...typically 125-150....
but with the thread fit on the brmxd i felt very comfy at 125 with a 300 wsm
 
rsmithsr said:
golden bear in black
brm-xd ??
i like torque...typically 125-150....
but with the thread fit on the brmxd i felt very comfy at 125 with a 300 wsm[/QUOTE

]IMOthis setup works best as a glue-in which I'm avoiding (I have several already, not avoiding blindly..... I can't tighten them)
Click to expand...
 
i am lost
why can't you tighten them ??
i use a bbl vice a rear entry wrench and a quality torque wrench.
i been torqueing for over 50 years, schools and training just in torque.

alinwa said:
rsmithsr said:
golden bear in black
brm-xd ??
i like torque...typically 125-150....
but with the thread fit on the brmxd i felt very comfy at 125 with a 300 wsm[/QUOTE

]IMOthis setup works best as a glue-in which I'm avoiding (I have several already, not avoiding blindly..... I can't tighten them)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
rsmithsr said:
i am lost
why can't you tighten them ??
i use a bbl vice a rear entry wrench and a quality torque wrench.
i been torqueing for over 50 years, schools and training just in torque.


Please supply me with a name that will make me an action wrench capable of 150ftlb in a Rem700
Click to expand...
 
davidson from brownells
3/4" drive flat steel bar

om a side note....don't get snippy..i think you need to get better at the thread and shoulder. while i chamber ok, my local be 'smith is much better at the whole package.
his thread/shoulder lock up is amazing
just sayin' something to look at.

alinwa said:
rsmithsr said:
i am lost
why can't you tighten them ??
i use a bbl vice a rear entry wrench and a quality torque wrench.
i been torqueing for over 50 years, schools and training just in torque.



Please supply me with a name that will make me an action wrench capable of 150ftlb in a Rem700
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
rsmithsr said:
davidson from brownells
3/4" drive flat steel bar

om a side note....don't get snippy..i think you need to get better at the thread and shoulder. while i chamber ok, my local be 'smith is much better at the whole package.
his thread/shoulder lock up is amazing
just sayin' something to look at.


I'm glad that works for you, it hasn't for me.
Click to expand...
 
rsmithsr said:
davidson from brownells
3/4" drive flat steel bar

om a side note....don't get snippy..i think you need to get better at the thread and shoulder. while i chamber ok, my local be 'smith is much better at the whole package.
his thread/shoulder lock up is amazing
just sayin' something to look at.




And you are??
Click to expand...
 
willing to pay a known gunsmith to do work that is better than mine.

Butch Lambert said:
rsmithsr said:
davidson from brownells
3/4" drive flat steel bar

om a side note....don't get snippy..i think you need to get better at the thread and shoulder. while i chamber ok, my local be 'smith is much better at the whole package.
his thread/shoulder lock up is amazing
just sayin' something to look at.





And you are??
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
LOL!!! Butch you are a wonderfully kind and polite man

And rsmithsr, I'm in another place. Having already paid the best gunsmiths on the planet I now do my own work because I can't GET them to do the work I want. If I've given you the impression that my workmanship is inadequate, may I offer my abject apology.

I'll not offer you any of the "advice" you freely dispense :)
 
All though a 100lbs + of Torque seems to be allot. Lug nuts on a typical car is only around 90lbs. So possibly not as much as one might think like I too used to also believe. This is what they use at your typical tire stores while using their air impact wrenches.
 
Louis.J said:
All though a 100lbs + of Torque seems to be allot. Lug nuts on a typical car is only around 90lbs. So possibly not as much as one might think like I too used to also believe. This is what they use at your typical tire stores while using their air impact wrenches.
Click to expand...

lugs on a typical car are 7/16 mild steel and should only be tightened to a lubricated 25-30ftlb. Pickemup trucks maybe 1/2" and 50-ish....... they'll friggin TWIST OFF at 150ftlb....BTST the lugs on my little 3500HD pickup trucks are often tightened to around 200ft lb and on my mid-sized 24ft box vans with their "huge" 7/8 lugs I'll often see 600ftlb from the tire stores although we only set them to a lubricated 200.

Of course none of this is relevant in any way to the problem of countering the unseating force generated by 80,000psi on a 1" threaded joint. Let me just say that engineers, Engineers and even physicists have told me to use 150ftlb, a truly paltry force on a properly shouldered 1" bolt. That while it's far from actually seating the abutting shoulders as would be done in a machine assembly, the 150lb on a properly lubricated joint will resist the minor disruption caused by a firing cycle.

I lissen to folks whose specialized education allows them to analyze problems in their fields well. I didn't say "folks smarter than you and I" because they're not, just that they specialize. I get my information on gardening from my sister the hippy, I get my information on blowing sh!t up from my son the chemical/mechanical engineer and pyro.... and I get my information on threaded gunbarrel joints from a group of people who have a capital 'E' Engineer in their title.

And right now I think that 150ftlb is on the marginal side for some of my chamberings generating 6,000-8,000fpe...... 4 tons of heffalump banging on a threaded joint supporting 8lb of displaced weight on either side??? that joint takes a beating.
 
alinwa said:
Engineers and even physicists have told me to use 150ftlb, a truly paltry force on a properly shouldered 1" bolt. That while it's far from actually seating the abutting shoulders as would be done in a machine assembly, the 150lb on a properly lubricated joint will resist the minor disruption caused by a firing cycle.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in learning how it's been proven that the action face/barrel shoulder interface moves during firing.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Butch

Butch Lambert said:
rsmithsr said:
davidson from brownells
3/4" drive flat steel bar

om a side note....don't get snippy..i think you need to get better at the thread and shoulder. while i chamber ok, my local be 'smith is much better at the whole package.
his thread/shoulder lock up is amazing
just sayin' something to look at.

good point! I had a barrel done maybe 15 years ago, that shot great then went to ell. I setup to pull it and the action just fell off the barrel, no wrench torque needed. Come to find out the smith pulled the threading tool out just a bit too soon and left an unthreaded portion between the end of the thread and the barrel shoulder. That was just long and wide enough to prevent positive lockup of the barrel to action face, despite it seeming it was. That unthreaded part was cut out and the Lilja went on to be one of the two best barrels I ever had. The devil is in the details isn't it?



And you are??
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Click to expand...
 
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