Agenda Items

How odd is THAT premise? "Not about the shooters, just about the gun?"

HAY, why not just send everyone's GUNS to a match, an let some part time help at the range shoot em all for score to select the "winner"? Woulda saved lots of travel time for all the teams!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm sure twin 500cc tank would take care of it. We could do some testing to very the capacity would be enough for the FPE required for this class. I agree that we absolutely don't want to limit the unlimited class by not having enough capacity, but I'm sure there is a way around it. I know Chip and I have many times discussed using a tethered 88 tank; he would like to be tethered to an 88 on his new unlimited gun and I think he's already bought the components to do this.

Have a great Sunday afternoon. Gordon
 
Most people that shoot benchrest for score have guns good enough to win.

It's the Shooter, not the gun that wins.

Kevin Kunkle
 
Here is where we are:

USA Open Class
.177, .20 and .22 calibers are allowed.
Up to a maximum of 35 FPE.
Up to a maximum of 25 pounds.
International scoring rules will apply.
Target distance will be 25 meters or 50 yards, at the discretion of the host club/range.
One piece rests are allowed.

USA Unlimited Class
Any caliber is allowed.
Any power level is allowed.
Any weight rifle is allowed.
International scoring rules will apply.
Target distance will be 25 meters or 50 yards, at the discretion of the host club/range.
One piece rests are allowed.
Terhered tanks are NOT allowed.
 
So, I fergit ... what eggzackly is the POINT of this thread? Are you trying to develop a new sanctioning body established on your precepts, or what? At FIRST, I thought it was to propose a new class that could be incorporated wit the fifty meter International rules, but now its pretty obvious this isnt the case.

So, what ARE the objectives of your thread?

I have my own range, with both 25M and fifty yard lines, and hold regular matches per the club's wishes. We have been shooting an unlimited class that is similar to those discussed for a couple years, with the exception of caliber, which is limited to .22 or less. We have no power limit, but require a card and sighters to be fired on the same air charge. We prefer to not use one piece rests. We like shooting groups.
 
LD,

I will make this as clear as I know how.

The purpose of this thread was to solicit feedback on the addition of new rifle classes to United States Air Rifle Benchrest and what target distance should be used.

What began as one rifle class has now become two.

The target distance was 25m or 50y.

I have assembled that feedback into a simple rules version of what these rifle classes will look like so a final determination can be made.

I am moving slowly so as many shooters can participate as possible and in order to get this right the first time.

My precepts are not the last word, if you recall I thought tethered tanks were fine and the shooters quickly made their voices heard and that idea is off the table.

If, in fact, you want to continue to shoot your own game with your own rules, that is your choice.
 
Whar isnt so clear to me is this:

What is "United States Air Rifle Benchrest"? Is it an actual organization with a Charter, replete with bylaws and member clubs, is it about Postal matches, series matches, or what? Are YOU the head of "United States Air rfle Benchrest", or what? How long has it been, well, watever, in power, around, or what? how is it structured, what are the goals?

To me, it seems only a very few shooters have participated in the thread, and, though at first I was too, now I'm not really sure why?
 
LD,

Allow me to quote your own words.

"I guess repeating the same thing over and over is kinda silly, since its clear you are only "seeing" what you want."

It is difficult to tell if you are deliberately being dense or if there is some age related issue in place but I will be patient.

United States Air Rifle Benchrest is a sanctioning organization. It was formed after the demise of AGBR in order for air rifle benchrest shooters in this country to participate in the 2011 World Championships. The WRABF accepted our formation and consented to our having qualifications to determine what shooters would be invited to that event. The organization continues on to support the sport, sanction matches at clubs/ranges and organize qualifying for national and international events in the future. I am the head of the organization and run the website. When feedback is solicited, as in this case, it is accepted via this forum, email or telephone. Some benchrest shooters have become very leary about internet forums recently.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
obviously way over your head

therealld said:
How odd is THAT premise? "Not about the shooters, just about the gun?"

HAY, why not just send everyone's GUNS to a match, an let some part time help at the range shoot em all for score to select the "winner"? Woulda saved lots of travel time for all the teams!
Click to expand...

FYI The best gun in the hands of a bad shooter will not win. The best shooter with a bad gun will not win.
Get real LD for any shooter to be sucessful he first has to have a gun capable of winning. You might want to spend a little time exploring this area after whitnessing the disastrous preformance of your LD tunnel tuned USFT's at the world cup.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
LD
I told myself earlier that I wasn't going to get in on this but I findly gave in to your BS. I would like to know why you think that you are the guru of airrifle benchrest all of a sudden. I know that you say you have been involved with airrifles since the Mayflower ran aground.
What organization or sactioning body do you shoot your matches at your range? Do you make up the rules as you go? I for one am glad you are not part of USARBR BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU in our organization with your attitude.
You also need to get on your knees and thanks Steve George for all the work, time and not to mention the expense of setting up USARBR and putting together a team just to shoot in the worlds.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is " if you don't like this game or the people go find you another sand box to play in".

Larry B
 
OBVIOUSLY OVER YOUR HEAD:
FYI...........The best gun in the world in the hands of a poor shooter will not win......the best shooter in the world with a poor gun will not win......facts

For a shooter to win he must first have a gun capable of winning. You might to want to spend a little time exploring and addressing his area after the disasterous preformance of the much touted LD tunnel tuned USFT's at the world cup.
 
Thanks for you input.. Frankly I was never made aware of what you seem to have been taking for granted. In all the communications we have had so far, this is the first time it was clearly stated.

I have learned more about you in the last few days than over the last year.
 
Likewise I'm Sure

I, too, have learned more about you in the last few days than over the last year.
 
Is there a scope magnification limit in any of the classes from LV to unlimited?
 
I don't consider myself a Benchrest Guru, I'm an airgun hobbist and enthusiast. I enjoy all forms of shooting, esp airgun, and have recently, over the last few years, become more involved with the benchrest aspect. But then, I suspect you knew this already.

It seems strange to you perhaps, but in my hours of discussion with Steve by phone, he never indicated he was anything more than a guy trying to help organize a decent Team USA by collecting feedback and disseminating it with respect to having qualifications trials to help select contestants for the USA airgun competitors attending the Worlds Match. I helped him, and he seemed cordial and thanked me for my help. I wasn't cognizant of any charter, bylaws or goals beyond the event, nor informed of who the officials were, how they were elected, their duties, terms, or any of the other things that might have clued me into the purpose of this thread.

I can see now thread has drifted onto a "bash Larry" one, under the purported guise that I'm not good enough for your group, which simply seems to say ... "we don't like outsiders and folk not like us".

So ok, you aren't inclusive, but rather exclusive, I can live with that. Glad you chimed in.

I know neither you nor Steve attended the match, but I did, and I enjoyed it. It was a good match, and the USA effort was pretty successful. I felt WHATEVER part Steve played in it was a good thing. BUT ... while at the event, It was obvious to me, and other contestants that the main players with respect to ORGANIZATION that were making the actual event go were Malcom, Craig, and Bill . Yes, Dave did yoeman's duty and made sure the USA guys had their shirts and hats, and shared some info he had with respect to bench assignments and squadding arrangements, but by all outward appearances, Malcom and Craig, and Bill were running things, which was fine by me. I left thinking everyone was happy in general, and I thought the competition was great, but there were some shortfalls in the awards program. Nothing at all wrong with what I thought might have been related to Steve's work though.

But to be honest, I thought his work was done, the Worlds was over, an that was that ... until today.

Its evident you are privy to a lot more information about the workings of "your" organization than I am, and I guess that's fine. I must say, the use of THIS Forum to inform folks that are not "insiders" as you apparently are, hasn't been all the successful with respect to the way you all feel things need to be. I now realize from today's postings that Steve has his own Website, too, but now, it doesn't matter to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
LD,

I may run the website but it is not for me, it is for the shooters. During our many conversations, I never felt it necessary to fill in a great deal of the behind the scenes details. Between our website and the WRABF website, it is rather difficult to hide a lot of details. The work at hand, during that time, was to write rules for the qualifying period that was to come and that took priority since time was of the essence, we were playing catch up and the rest of the world had named their teams. I respected your experience with air rifles and will always be grateful that you were willing give your help freely.

This thread was never meant to be a "bash" Larry thread. This sport, this organization is not exclusive at all as evidenced by our efforts to have a rifle class for everyone. There are no "outsiders". This organization does not charge sanctioning fees to clubs/ranges, there are no match fees, no per card fees, free targets that you can have printed yourself and a host of experienced shooters ready to help. We even accepted qualifying scores from Temecula, even though it was not a sanctioned range.

As I explained to you before, the 2011 World Championships were not our event, we were to be guests, their event, their rules. Craig Young was the USA representative for WRABF, however, he is a rimfire shooter and knew little about air rifles before the serious planning began. The host club, as well, had no experience with air rifle benchrest matches, not to mention a competition of this size. In the end, a wonderful event and a very successful outcome for Team USA. Thank you Craig and everyone involved that made it possible for Team USA to feel at home.

Then we come to this week. We should be celebrating our top performances but splashed everywhere, a rash of thinly veiled accusations, innuendo and simply mean spirited cheap shots. We went from whose barrel is better, who should get credit and who should be recognized to cheating, unethical behavior, copycat products and my favorite, wannabe pundits. I went to the gym today and did a personal record in a lift just so I could manage to "man up" next time. I am planning to brush up on my reading skills, too.

You have consistently said you did and said nothing wrong. You refused to accept any responsibility and finally refused to apologize. It should be clear, even to you, by now, that many people do not share your claim of innocence. No one can read your mind and reading between the lines is risky, so here we are. If it doesn't matter to you, you already know how I feel.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Chris" is it?

Ok, well, that narration of yours for sure reads like I was correct in my recollection of having never been informed about your status or the overall intents of you and your organization.

I only just today visited "your website", and now that I realize that both you and Frank are high officials .... I have to say I find your practices of openly singling out individuals in the sport to malign and belittle them and their equipment hardly professional, nor conducive to creating an inviting atmosphere to your lair. But so what?

As I said, I don't owe an apology to anyone, as I feel they are mostly trying to lump me with Tim in order to target me. Fact is at the time of that match, I was so dis-involved with him we were barely in speaking terms, and I include him in the list of those that owe me an apology.

But, now that so much has been revealed to me about the lot of you, I know better.

Time to turn the page and move on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top